Vice: Commodore Superpet & OS/9 Multi disk units

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Vice: Commodore Superpet & OS/9 Multi disk units

AndyG
Hi all

Wondered if someone can help me out here. I am not able to to run Vice in
Superpet mode with 2 drive units 8050 and 8250 .... VICE only allows unit 8
& 9 which is drive 0 and drive 1 ..... on a 8050 for example.
unit 10 & 11 are not enabled in VICE.

I want to run Super OS/9 with this configuration also - i have the relevant
os9.d8d9.mod module to enable multi unit capability.

I can have one or the other but not both .... any ideas or is this a
limitation of Vice ?

Also, I have been working in OS/9 - on my real unit, I can create a ram disk
by issuing the command format /dram without any issues. in VICE when you
issue a Format /dram command from the os9: prompt it goes through the
formatting motions until it asks for the disk name ... after that it just
hangs. Any ideas ?

Cheers
Andy



--
Sent from: http://cbm-hackers.2304266.n4.nabble.com/

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Re: Vice: Commodore Superpet & OS/9 Multi disk units

Rhialto
On Sat 23 Jun 2018 at 01:24:20 -0700, AndyG wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Wondered if someone can help me out here. I am not able to to run Vice in
> Superpet mode with 2 drive units 8050 and 8250 .... VICE only allows unit 8
> & 9 which is drive 0 and drive 1 ..... on a 8050 for example.
> unit 10 & 11 are not enabled in VICE.

Due to some internal limitations, a dual drive takes up 2 device
numbers, so the first 8050 would be at device 8 and also make number 9
unavailable. The second 8050 (or 8250) would be device 10 and make 11
unavailable. That is because internally VICE only knows about 4 floppy
images.

The gtk3 settings windows in the current svn version doesn't seem to
represent this 100% correctly yet, I see now that I'm trying that.
I'm pretty sure this is shown correctly (but possibly somewhat
confusingly) in the menu settings in older releases.

> I want to run Super OS/9 with this configuration also - i have the relevant
> os9.d8d9.mod module to enable multi unit capability.
>
> I can have one or the other but not both .... any ideas or is this a
> limitation of Vice ?

Maybe the OS/9 code cannot handle that it needs to access drive 8 and
10, instead of the probably more common 8 and 9?

> Also, I have been working in OS/9 - on my real unit, I can create a ram disk
> by issuing the command format /dram without any issues. in VICE when you
> issue a Format /dram command from the os9: prompt it goes through the
> formatting motions until it asks for the disk name ... after that it just
> hangs. Any ideas ?

There might be a bug in the 6809 code, who knows. It is only lightly
tested, really. I briefly tried OS/9, I think, and saw it didn't crash,
but no more. In particular the 6809 is not cycle-exact; maybe that would
be a problem?

> Cheers
> Andy
-Olaf.
--
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert  -- Wayland: Those who don't understand X
\X/ rhialto/at/falu.nl      -- are condemned to reinvent it. Poorly.

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Re: Vice: Commodore Superpet & OS/9 Multi disk units

AndyG

> Maybe the OS/9 code cannot handle that it needs to access drive 8 and
> 10, instead of the probably more common 8 and 9?

Yes, OS/9 expects unit 8 and unit 9 …. i finally managed to perform a directory listing on disk10 (8250) using the waterloo microEditor (took several attempts) but as the os/9 files are contained in a ‘rel’ file, I don’t know how to decode it..

I have a few os/9 programs in a large ‘rel’ file that it seems can only be read on an 8250 (confirmed in Vice) … I only have an 8050 so was hoping could use VICE to transfer across to that format. A ram disk was another thought and then switch drive types etc.

Thank you for replying….




> On 23 Jun 2018, at 16:53, Rhialto <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Sat 23 Jun 2018 at 01:24:20 -0700, AndyG wrote:
>> Hi all
>>
>> Wondered if someone can help me out here. I am not able to to run Vice in
>> Superpet mode with 2 drive units 8050 and 8250 .... VICE only allows unit 8
>> & 9 which is drive 0 and drive 1 ..... on a 8050 for example.
>> unit 10 & 11 are not enabled in VICE.
>
> Due to some internal limitations, a dual drive takes up 2 device
> numbers, so the first 8050 would be at device 8 and also make number 9
> unavailable. The second 8050 (or 8250) would be device 10 and make 11
> unavailable. That is because internally VICE only knows about 4 floppy
> images.
>
> The gtk3 settings windows in the current svn version doesn't seem to
> represent this 100% correctly yet, I see now that I'm trying that.
> I'm pretty sure this is shown correctly (but possibly somewhat
> confusingly) in the menu settings in older releases.
>
>> I want to run Super OS/9 with this configuration also - i have the relevant
>> os9.d8d9.mod module to enable multi unit capability.
>>
>> I can have one or the other but not both .... any ideas or is this a
>> limitation of Vice ?
>
> Maybe the OS/9 code cannot handle that it needs to access drive 8 and
> 10, instead of the probably more common 8 and 9?
>
>> Also, I have been working in OS/9 - on my real unit, I can create a ram disk
>> by issuing the command format /dram without any issues. in VICE when you
>> issue a Format /dram command from the os9: prompt it goes through the
>> formatting motions until it asks for the disk name ... after that it just
>> hangs. Any ideas ?
>
> There might be a bug in the 6809 code, who knows. It is only lightly
> tested, really. I briefly tried OS/9, I think, and saw it didn't crash,
> but no more. In particular the 6809 is not cycle-exact; maybe that would
> be a problem?
>
>> Cheers
>> Andy
> -Olaf.
> --
> ___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert  -- Wayland: Those who don't understand X
> \X/ rhialto/at/falu.nl      -- are condemned to reinvent it. Poorly.


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Re: Vice: Commodore Superpet & OS/9 Multi disk units

AndyG
ummm, just had an idea come to me …. on the super os/9 disk, when running in the os/9 environment, there are two programs in the cmds folder called cbmwrite and cbmread. I used cdmwrite to write the 0s9.d8d9 module file out onto the native part of the CBM disk which can be read on the  superpet using the waterloo micro editor.

I bet cbmread does the opposite …. will try it to see if i can write the files out of the os/9 environment and then use cbmread to put them back in having copied them onto an 8050 format disk - all in vice.

Andy

> On 23 Jun 2018, at 19:47, Andy Grady <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> Maybe the OS/9 code cannot handle that it needs to access drive 8 and
>> 10, instead of the probably more common 8 and 9?
>
> Yes, OS/9 expects unit 8 and unit 9 …. i finally managed to perform a directory listing on disk10 (8250) using the waterloo microEditor (took several attempts) but as the os/9 files are contained in a ‘rel’ file, I don’t know how to decode it..
>
> I have a few os/9 programs in a large ‘rel’ file that it seems can only be read on an 8250 (confirmed in Vice) … I only have an 8050 so was hoping could use VICE to transfer across to that format. A ram disk was another thought and then switch drive types etc.
>
> Thank you for replying….
>
>
>
>
>> On 23 Jun 2018, at 16:53, Rhialto <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat 23 Jun 2018 at 01:24:20 -0700, AndyG wrote:
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> Wondered if someone can help me out here. I am not able to to run Vice in
>>> Superpet mode with 2 drive units 8050 and 8250 .... VICE only allows unit 8
>>> & 9 which is drive 0 and drive 1 ..... on a 8050 for example.
>>> unit 10 & 11 are not enabled in VICE.
>>
>> Due to some internal limitations, a dual drive takes up 2 device
>> numbers, so the first 8050 would be at device 8 and also make number 9
>> unavailable. The second 8050 (or 8250) would be device 10 and make 11
>> unavailable. That is because internally VICE only knows about 4 floppy
>> images.
>>
>> The gtk3 settings windows in the current svn version doesn't seem to
>> represent this 100% correctly yet, I see now that I'm trying that.
>> I'm pretty sure this is shown correctly (but possibly somewhat
>> confusingly) in the menu settings in older releases.
>>
>>> I want to run Super OS/9 with this configuration also - i have the relevant
>>> os9.d8d9.mod module to enable multi unit capability.
>>>
>>> I can have one or the other but not both .... any ideas or is this a
>>> limitation of Vice ?
>>
>> Maybe the OS/9 code cannot handle that it needs to access drive 8 and
>> 10, instead of the probably more common 8 and 9?
>>
>>> Also, I have been working in OS/9 - on my real unit, I can create a ram disk
>>> by issuing the command format /dram without any issues. in VICE when you
>>> issue a Format /dram command from the os9: prompt it goes through the
>>> formatting motions until it asks for the disk name ... after that it just
>>> hangs. Any ideas ?
>>
>> There might be a bug in the 6809 code, who knows. It is only lightly
>> tested, really. I briefly tried OS/9, I think, and saw it didn't crash,
>> but no more. In particular the 6809 is not cycle-exact; maybe that would
>> be a problem?
>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Andy
>> -Olaf.
>> --
>> ___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert  -- Wayland: Those who don't understand X
>> \X/ rhialto/at/falu.nl      -- are condemned to reinvent it. Poorly.
>
>


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Re: Vice: Commodore Superpet & OS/9 Multi disk units.

AndyG
OK that didn’t work …..

Digging deeper it seems this is an 8050 format disk but under DOS 2.7 …. from what i can glean dos2.7 can handle or/9 ‘rel' files differently (larger sizes are possible and this one is formatted as 120 tracks instead of 77) which is possibly the cause of why i cannot do anything with this disk.

In Vice what is the DOS version for 8050 drives ?

Andy
 

> On 23 Jun 2018, at 20:21, Andy Grady <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> ummm, just had an idea come to me …. on the super os/9 disk, when running in the os/9 environment, there are two programs in the cmds folder called cbmwrite and cbmread. I used cdmwrite to write the 0s9.d8d9 module file out onto the native part of the CBM disk which can be read on the  superpet using the waterloo micro editor.
>
> I bet cbmread does the opposite …. will try it to see if i can write the files out of the os/9 environment and then use cbmread to put them back in having copied them onto an 8050 format disk - all in vice.
>
> Andy
>
>> On 23 Jun 2018, at 19:47, Andy Grady <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Maybe the OS/9 code cannot handle that it needs to access drive 8 and
>>> 10, instead of the probably more common 8 and 9?
>>
>> Yes, OS/9 expects unit 8 and unit 9 …. i finally managed to perform a directory listing on disk10 (8250) using the waterloo microEditor (took several attempts) but as the os/9 files are contained in a ‘rel’ file, I don’t know how to decode it..
>>
>> I have a few os/9 programs in a large ‘rel’ file that it seems can only be read on an 8250 (confirmed in Vice) … I only have an 8050 so was hoping could use VICE to transfer across to that format. A ram disk was another thought and then switch drive types etc.
>>
>> Thank you for replying….
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 23 Jun 2018, at 16:53, Rhialto <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat 23 Jun 2018 at 01:24:20 -0700, AndyG wrote:
>>>> Hi all
>>>>
>>>> Wondered if someone can help me out here. I am not able to to run Vice in
>>>> Superpet mode with 2 drive units 8050 and 8250 .... VICE only allows unit 8
>>>> & 9 which is drive 0 and drive 1 ..... on a 8050 for example.
>>>> unit 10 & 11 are not enabled in VICE.
>>>
>>> Due to some internal limitations, a dual drive takes up 2 device
>>> numbers, so the first 8050 would be at device 8 and also make number 9
>>> unavailable. The second 8050 (or 8250) would be device 10 and make 11
>>> unavailable. That is because internally VICE only knows about 4 floppy
>>> images.
>>>
>>> The gtk3 settings windows in the current svn version doesn't seem to
>>> represent this 100% correctly yet, I see now that I'm trying that.
>>> I'm pretty sure this is shown correctly (but possibly somewhat
>>> confusingly) in the menu settings in older releases.
>>>
>>>> I want to run Super OS/9 with this configuration also - i have the relevant
>>>> os9.d8d9.mod module to enable multi unit capability.
>>>>
>>>> I can have one or the other but not both .... any ideas or is this a
>>>> limitation of Vice ?
>>>
>>> Maybe the OS/9 code cannot handle that it needs to access drive 8 and
>>> 10, instead of the probably more common 8 and 9?
>>>
>>>> Also, I have been working in OS/9 - on my real unit, I can create a ram disk
>>>> by issuing the command format /dram without any issues. in VICE when you
>>>> issue a Format /dram command from the os9: prompt it goes through the
>>>> formatting motions until it asks for the disk name ... after that it just
>>>> hangs. Any ideas ?
>>>
>>> There might be a bug in the 6809 code, who knows. It is only lightly
>>> tested, really. I briefly tried OS/9, I think, and saw it didn't crash,
>>> but no more. In particular the 6809 is not cycle-exact; maybe that would
>>> be a problem?
>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Andy
>>> -Olaf.
>>> --
>>> ___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert  -- Wayland: Those who don't understand X
>>> \X/ rhialto/at/falu.nl      -- are condemned to reinvent it. Poorly.
>>
>>
>
>


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Re: Vice: Commodore Superpet & OS/9 Multi disk units.

Rhialto
On Sun 24 Jun 2018 at 10:26:45 +0100, Andy Grady wrote:
> OK that didn?t work ?..
>
> Digging deeper it seems this is an 8050 format disk but under DOS 2.7 ?. from what i can glean dos2.7 can handle or/9 ?rel' files differently (larger sizes are possible and this one is formatted as 120 tracks instead of 77) which is possibly the cause of why i cannot do anything with this disk.

I guess you could try sfd-1001 drives.

> In Vice what is the DOS version for 8050 drives ?

I don't know off the top of my head, but

*** commodore basic 4.0 ***

 31743 bytes free

ready.
?ds$
73,cbm dos v2.7,00,00,0

ready.


-Olaf.
--
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert  -- Wayland: Those who don't understand X
\X/ rhialto/at/falu.nl      -- are condemned to reinvent it. Poorly.


> Andy
>  
>
> > On 23 Jun 2018, at 20:21, Andy Grady <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > ummm, just had an idea come to me ?. on the super os/9 disk, when running in the os/9 environment, there are two programs in the cmds folder called cbmwrite and cbmread. I used cdmwrite to write the 0s9.d8d9 module file out onto the native part of the CBM disk which can be read on the  superpet using the waterloo micro editor.
> >
> > I bet cbmread does the opposite ?. will try it to see if i can write the files out of the os/9 environment and then use cbmread to put them back in having copied them onto an 8050 format disk - all in vice.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >> On 23 Jun 2018, at 19:47, Andy Grady <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Maybe the OS/9 code cannot handle that it needs to access drive 8 and
> >>> 10, instead of the probably more common 8 and 9?
> >>
> >> Yes, OS/9 expects unit 8 and unit 9 ?. i finally managed to perform a directory listing on disk10 (8250) using the waterloo microEditor (took several attempts) but as the os/9 files are contained in a ?rel? file, I don?t know how to decode it..
> >>
> >> I have a few os/9 programs in a large ?rel? file that it seems can only be read on an 8250 (confirmed in Vice) ? I only have an 8050 so was hoping could use VICE to transfer across to that format. A ram disk was another thought and then switch drive types etc.
> >>
> >> Thank you for replying?.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 23 Jun 2018, at 16:53, Rhialto <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Sat 23 Jun 2018 at 01:24:20 -0700, AndyG wrote:
> >>>> Hi all
> >>>>
> >>>> Wondered if someone can help me out here. I am not able to to run Vice in
> >>>> Superpet mode with 2 drive units 8050 and 8250 .... VICE only allows unit 8
> >>>> & 9 which is drive 0 and drive 1 ..... on a 8050 for example.
> >>>> unit 10 & 11 are not enabled in VICE.
> >>>
> >>> Due to some internal limitations, a dual drive takes up 2 device
> >>> numbers, so the first 8050 would be at device 8 and also make number 9
> >>> unavailable. The second 8050 (or 8250) would be device 10 and make 11
> >>> unavailable. That is because internally VICE only knows about 4 floppy
> >>> images.
> >>>
> >>> The gtk3 settings windows in the current svn version doesn't seem to
> >>> represent this 100% correctly yet, I see now that I'm trying that.
> >>> I'm pretty sure this is shown correctly (but possibly somewhat
> >>> confusingly) in the menu settings in older releases.
> >>>
> >>>> I want to run Super OS/9 with this configuration also - i have the relevant
> >>>> os9.d8d9.mod module to enable multi unit capability.
> >>>>
> >>>> I can have one or the other but not both .... any ideas or is this a
> >>>> limitation of Vice ?
> >>>
> >>> Maybe the OS/9 code cannot handle that it needs to access drive 8 and
> >>> 10, instead of the probably more common 8 and 9?
> >>>
> >>>> Also, I have been working in OS/9 - on my real unit, I can create a ram disk
> >>>> by issuing the command format /dram without any issues. in VICE when you
> >>>> issue a Format /dram command from the os9: prompt it goes through the
> >>>> formatting motions until it asks for the disk name ... after that it just
> >>>> hangs. Any ideas ?
> >>>
> >>> There might be a bug in the 6809 code, who knows. It is only lightly
> >>> tested, really. I briefly tried OS/9, I think, and saw it didn't crash,
> >>> but no more. In particular the 6809 is not cycle-exact; maybe that would
> >>> be a problem?
> >>>
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>> Andy
> >>> -Olaf.
> >>> --
> >>> ___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert  -- Wayland: Those who don't understand X
> >>> \X/ rhialto/at/falu.nl      -- are condemned to reinvent it. Poorly.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>

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Re: Vice: Commodore Superpet & OS/9 Multi disk units.

AndyG
Thanks - I think I have figured it out and was able to get my idea to work.

The 8250 (with dos 2.7) allows for extended REL files which the 8050 cannot read. This is enabled (extended REL file capability) by default and you have to disable it first before creating a 8250 REL file that can be read on a 8050 (the command is listed in the Commodore Disk reference manual for the D9060 …. 8050). Section copied below

Relative files on 8050 disk units are limited to a size of 182,880 bytes. On 8250 disk units with DOS 2.7 this limit no longer applies and relative files may use the entire capacity of an 8250 diskette. The 8250 will power-up with the Expanded Relative File feature enabled. To read/write 8050 formatted relative files, this feature must be disabled as follows:

Example

OPEN 15,8,15
PRINT#15,"M-W"chr$ (164)chr$ (67)chr$ (l)chr$ (255)

CLOSE 15 



I then created a OS/9 disk on the 8250 and used the cbmwrite command to copy programs out of the os9 environment and put them on the native disk which waterloo micro editor can see. Copied them across (using the micro editor) to a 8050 formatted floppy and used cbmread to put them back into the 8050 REL file under OS/9.

Has anyone got a scanned copy of the SuperPet OS/9 manual in their library ?

Cheers
Andy


On 24 Jun 2018, at 18:36, Rhialto <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Sun 24 Jun 2018 at 10:26:45 +0100, Andy Grady wrote:
OK that didn?t work ?..

Digging deeper it seems this is an 8050 format disk but under DOS 2.7 ?. from what i can glean dos2.7 can handle or/9 ?rel' files differently (larger sizes are possible and this one is formatted as 120 tracks instead of 77) which is possibly the cause of why i cannot do anything with this disk.

I guess you could try sfd-1001 drives.

In Vice what is the DOS version for 8050 drives ?

I don't know off the top of my head, but

*** commodore basic 4.0 ***

31743 bytes free

ready.
?ds$
73,cbm dos v2.7,00,00,0

ready.


-Olaf.
--
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert  -- Wayland: Those who don't understand X
\X/ rhialto/at/falu.nl      -- are condemned to reinvent it. Poorly.


Andy


On 23 Jun 2018, at 20:21, Andy Grady <[hidden email]> wrote:

ummm, just had an idea come to me ?. on the super os/9 disk, when running in the os/9 environment, there are two programs in the cmds folder called cbmwrite and cbmread. I used cdmwrite to write the 0s9.d8d9 module file out onto the native part of the CBM disk which can be read on the  superpet using the waterloo micro editor.

I bet cbmread does the opposite ?. will try it to see if i can write the files out of the os/9 environment and then use cbmread to put them back in having copied them onto an 8050 format disk - all in vice.

Andy

On 23 Jun 2018, at 19:47, Andy Grady <[hidden email]> wrote:


Maybe the OS/9 code cannot handle that it needs to access drive 8 and
10, instead of the probably more common 8 and 9?

Yes, OS/9 expects unit 8 and unit 9 ?. i finally managed to perform a directory listing on disk10 (8250) using the waterloo microEditor (took several attempts) but as the os/9 files are contained in a ?rel? file, I don?t know how to decode it..

I have a few os/9 programs in a large ?rel? file that it seems can only be read on an 8250 (confirmed in Vice) ? I only have an 8050 so was hoping could use VICE to transfer across to that format. A ram disk was another thought and then switch drive types etc.

Thank you for replying?.




On 23 Jun 2018, at 16:53, Rhialto <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Sat 23 Jun 2018 at 01:24:20 -0700, AndyG wrote:
Hi all

Wondered if someone can help me out here. I am not able to to run Vice in
Superpet mode with 2 drive units 8050 and 8250 .... VICE only allows unit 8
& 9 which is drive 0 and drive 1 ..... on a 8050 for example.
unit 10 & 11 are not enabled in VICE.

Due to some internal limitations, a dual drive takes up 2 device
numbers, so the first 8050 would be at device 8 and also make number 9
unavailable. The second 8050 (or 8250) would be device 10 and make 11
unavailable. That is because internally VICE only knows about 4 floppy
images.

The gtk3 settings windows in the current svn version doesn't seem to
represent this 100% correctly yet, I see now that I'm trying that.
I'm pretty sure this is shown correctly (but possibly somewhat
confusingly) in the menu settings in older releases.

I want to run Super OS/9 with this configuration also - i have the relevant
os9.d8d9.mod module to enable multi unit capability.

I can have one or the other but not both .... any ideas or is this a
limitation of Vice ?

Maybe the OS/9 code cannot handle that it needs to access drive 8 and
10, instead of the probably more common 8 and 9?

Also, I have been working in OS/9 - on my real unit, I can create a ram disk
by issuing the command format /dram without any issues. in VICE when you
issue a Format /dram command from the os9: prompt it goes through the
formatting motions until it asks for the disk name ... after that it just
hangs. Any ideas ?

There might be a bug in the 6809 code, who knows. It is only lightly
tested, really. I briefly tried OS/9, I think, and saw it didn't crash,
but no more. In particular the 6809 is not cycle-exact; maybe that would
be a problem?

Cheers
Andy
-Olaf.
--
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert  -- Wayland: Those who don't understand X
\X/ rhialto/at/falu.nl      -- are condemned to reinvent it. Poorly.






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Re: Vice: Commodore Superpet & OS/9 Multi disk units.

MiaM
Den Mon, 25 Jun 2018 14:18:30 +0100 skrev Andy Grady <[hidden email]>:

> Thanks - I think I have figured it out and was able to get my idea to
> work.
>
> The 8250 (with dos 2.7) allows for extended REL files which the 8050
> cannot read. This is enabled (extended REL file capability) by
> default and you have to disable it first before creating a 8250 REL
> file that can be read on a 8050 (the command is listed in the
> Commodore Disk reference manual for the D9060 …. 8050). Section
> copied below
>
> Relative files on 8050 disk units are limited to a size of 182,880
> bytes. On 8250 disk units with DOS 2.7 this limit no longer applies
> and relative files may use the entire capacity of an 8250 diskette.
> The 8250 will power-up with the Expanded Relative File feature
> enabled. To read/write 8050 formatted relative files, this feature
> must be disabled as follows:

Isn't this a question of having DOS 2.5 or DOS 2.7 in the 8050 drive?

Afaik they started shipping with DOS 2.5 but can run 2.7 and later
units might have shipped with 2.7.


--
(\_/) Copy the bunny to your mails to help
(O.o) him achieve world domination.
(> <) Come join the dark side.
/_|_\ We have cookies.

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Re: Vice: Commodore Superpet & OS/9 Multi disk units.

AndyG
Thats what i thought originally - hence i turned to VICE to try and figure it out. I think it is just more than this….

The DOS version for the 8050 in Vice appears to be 2.7 but it still cannot handle this disk which has an extended rel file for os/9. Perhaps the REL file extends to both sides of the floppy disk which is why the 8050 can not read (it this drive is single sided only). However, …..  This is what I have learned through trial an error as information on the internet is almost non existent - Mike’s Webpage on Super OS/9 is all I can find. There is lots of info for the Dragon and Tandy machines including programs …. but I digress

A super os/9 disk has a basic program called format.os9 …. when you run it, the program will create a single REL file of about 180k ‘ish’ (a limitation of the 8050). There is an article in one of the Superset gazettes talking about this, as the 8050 is not fully utilised in terms of disk space available. It suggested making multiple REL files which can be formatted and accessed as /d2 & /d3 in os9. 

TPUG produce a format.os9 variant that automatically generated 3 REL files for OS/9 called drive a, drive b and drive c on a single 8050 floppy disk …. I have a copy of this and it works.

There is yet another variant of the format.os9 program contained on the floppy disk with the large REL file …… this is what confused me as when I ran it it said 

Super-OS/9 File Formatter Version 1.1

  For DOS 2.7 on 8050 disk drive

Please insert the disk to be formatted in drive 0

Press <RETURN> when ready...

 I of course ran the program in VICE and it just hangs at the part where it is trying to put the drive into extended REL mode. I have literally figured out what the bug in the code was and corrected it (it was in the command to turn on the extended mode). Now it seems to run.

I wonder, the extended mode is turned on by default in the 8250 but for compatibility reasons must be turned off in the 8050. You have to turn it on …. but  have no idea how well the two types of REL files work together on  8050.

I thought about upgrading my 8050 to DOS 2.7 to verify this properly, but I need the suitable 6530 RIOT chip - Tynemouth sell a board that can be suitably configured for a Micropolis drive but I have achieved my goal of extracting the programs using the method described below. 

Anyway I have solved my problem with the convoluted workaround. If anyone has any Super os/9 programs or manuals it would be good to build up an archive as information is very scarce to say the least. 

Andy





On 26 Jun 2018, at 00:45, Mia Magnusson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Den Mon, 25 Jun 2018 14:18:30 +0100 skrev Andy Grady <[hidden email]>:
Thanks - I think I have figured it out and was able to get my idea to
work.

The 8250 (with dos 2.7) allows for extended REL files which the 8050
cannot read. This is enabled (extended REL file capability) by
default and you have to disable it first before creating a 8250 REL
file that can be read on a 8050 (the command is listed in the
Commodore Disk reference manual for the D9060 …. 8050). Section
copied below

Relative files on 8050 disk units are limited to a size of 182,880
bytes. On 8250 disk units with DOS 2.7 this limit no longer applies
and relative files may use the entire capacity of an 8250 diskette.
The 8250 will power-up with the Expanded Relative File feature
enabled. To read/write 8050 formatted relative files, this feature
must be disabled as follows:

Isn't this a question of having DOS 2.5 or DOS 2.7 in the 8050 drive?

Afaik they started shipping with DOS 2.5 but can run 2.7 and later
units might have shipped with 2.7.


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