The Ultimate-64

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
44 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

The Ultimate-64

Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud)

 

   http://1541ultimate.net/content/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74&catid=9

 

 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards, Ruud Baltissen

 

www.Baltissen.org

 

 

 

 



De informatie in dit e-mailbericht is vertrouwelijk en uitsluitend bestemd voor de
geadresseerde. Wanneer u dit bericht per abuis ontvangt, verzoeken wij u contact op te
nemen met de afzender per kerende e-mail. Verder verzoeken wij u in dat geval dit
e-mailbericht te vernietigen en de inhoud ervan aan niemand openbaar te maken.
Wij aanvaarden geen aansprakelijkheid voor onjuiste, onvolledige dan wel ontijdige
overbrenging van de inhoud van een verzonden e-mailbericht, noch voor daarbij
overgebrachte virussen.

APG Groep N.V. is gevestigd te Heerlen en is ingeschreven in het
handelsregister van de Kamer van Koophandel Limburg onder nummer 14099617


The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be privileged.
It may be read, copied and used only by the intended recipient.
If you have received it in error, please contact the sender immediately by
return e-mail; please delete in this case the e-mail and do not disclose its
contents to any person. We don't accept liability for any errors, omissions,
delays of receipt or viruses in the contents of this message which arise as a
result of e-mail transmission.

APG Groep N.V. is registered in the trade register of the Chamber
of Commerce Limburg, The Netherlands, registration number: 14099617
smf
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

smf
I'm disappointed by the lack of user port. It's also a little expensive.

I was hoping this would come in slightly cheaper too.

https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/shop/product/c64-reloaded-mk2.html

I might actually have to skip that plan and try fixing the broken c64's
I have.

On 15/07/2017 15:03, Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud) wrote:
>     http://1541ultimate.net/content/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74&catid=9
>
>


       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

Groepaz
On Monday 17 July 2017, 08:12:12 smf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'm disappointed by the lack of user port. It's also a little expensive.

it is silly cheap actually, no idea how gideon is trying to pull this off

--

http://www.hitmen-console.org    http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org        http://ar.pokefinder.org

Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build
bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce
bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.



       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
smf
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

smf
I think partly because he's not greedy & partly because it ties in with
what he does as a job.

The MCC 216 & MCC TV are also pretty cheap.

On 17/07/2017 12:37, [hidden email] wrote:
> it is silly cheap actually, no idea how gideon is trying to pull this off
>


       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

Groepaz
On Monday 17 July 2017, 13:45:07 smf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think partly because he's not greedy & partly because it ties in with
> what he does as a job.

he certainly doesnt factor in his time, thats for sure :)

> The MCC 216 & MCC TV are also pretty cheap.

ugh. yeah - and you also get what you paid for =)

--

http://www.hitmen-console.org    http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org        http://ar.pokefinder.org

Some people say that I must be a horrible person, but that's not true. I have
the heart of a small boy --- in a jar on my desk
<Stephen King>



       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

Gerrit Heitsch
In reply to this post by smf
On 07/17/2017 09:12 AM, smf wrote:
> I'm disappointed by the lack of user port. It's also a little expensive.

The user port is there, just not as an edge connector but on a pin header.


> I might actually have to skip that plan and try fixing the broken c64's
> I have.

That's usually not very difficult with the right tools.

  Gerrit




       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
smf
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

smf
In reply to this post by Groepaz
On 17/07/2017 13:51, [hidden email] wrote:
> he certainly doesnt factor in his time, thats for sure :)

He doesn't charge his time by the hour, but he has said that he makes a
profit on each sale.

I certainly prefer his approach.

> ugh. yeah - and you also get what you paid for =)

They don't use huge FPGA's, but then neither does gideon.

On 17/07/2017 14:08, Gerrit Heitsch wrote:
> The user port is there, just not as an edge connector but on a pin
> header.

I read that, but it doesn't help me plug a user port cable in. If it
came with a cable that goes to a user port edge connector then it
wouldn't be as bad.



       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
smf
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

smf


On 17/07/2017 15:58, smf wrote:
> If it came with a cable that goes to a user port edge connector then
> it wouldn't be as bad.

And if the connector was accessible externally so you didn't have to
open the case up all the time, because having a cable flapping around
when you move it is a pain.


       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

Groepaz
In reply to this post by smf
On Monday 17 July 2017, 15:58:25 smf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 17/07/2017 13:51, [hidden email] wrote:
> > he certainly doesnt factor in his time, thats for sure :)
>
> He doesn't charge his time by the hour, but he has said that he makes a
> profit on each sale.

as said - he doesnt factor in his time. if you only look at the BoM, then you
make "profit" with this of course.

> > ugh. yeah - and you also get what you paid for =)
>
> They don't use huge FPGA's, but then neither does gideon.

they dont bother developing any cores either (and thats what makes the whole
difference, not the hardware)

--

http://www.hitmen-console.org    http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org        http://ar.pokefinder.org

Die Majorität der Dummen ist unüberwindbar und für alle Zeiten gesichert. Der
Schrecken ihrer Tyrannei ist indessen gemildert durch Mangel an Konsequenz.
<Albert Einstein>



       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

silverdr-2
In reply to this post by smf

> On 2017-07-17, at 16:58, smf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 17/07/2017 14:08, Gerrit Heitsch wrote:
>> The user port is there, just not as an edge connector but on a pin header.
>
> I read that, but it doesn't help me plug a user port cable in. If it came with a cable that goes to a user port edge connector then it wouldn't be as bad.

I understand his choice and this was one of the things I also suggested. This is a compromise. I don't want to be left without the USER PORT facility but I understand that the connectors he placed in the opening will be statistically more often used. So this is a compromise I can live with and build my own cables accordingly. Obviously - if you are interested - designing an adapter is practically trivial so if people are interested I can pull off one in an evening or so. So does he I am sure, and it might appear later as an add-on if enough people show interest.

--
SD! - http://e4aws.silverdr.com/


       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

silverdr-2
In reply to this post by smf

> On 2017-07-17, at 17:00, smf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> If it came with a cable that goes to a user port edge connector then it wouldn't be as bad.
>
> And if the connector was accessible externally so you didn't have to open the case up all the time, because having a cable flapping around when you move it is a pain.

It's a compromise man. I guess there should be enough room on top of the opening to mount an adapter there.

--
SD! - http://e4aws.silverdr.com/


       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
smf
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

smf
In reply to this post by silverdr-2
On 17/07/2017 16:34, [hidden email] wrote:

> I understand his choice and this was one of the things I also suggested. This is a compromise.

I get that, but I'm still disappointed.

I might be wrong but I'm assuming it's the unpopulated 2 rows of 12 pins
between the keyboard and the cartridge port. If so then it's not the
best compromise.


       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

Jim Brain
On 7/17/2017 11:19 AM, smf wrote:
> On 17/07/2017 16:34, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> I understand his choice and this was one of the things I also
>> suggested. This is a compromise.
>
> I get that, but I'm still disappointed.
Do you (or any of you on the list) understand how absolutely devastating
that viewpoint is to those who consider building solutions for the platform?

I realize everyone is entitled to an opinion, and this list should
discuss the merits of such an omission as part of normal discourse, but
the implications of making such blanket statements are far-reaching.  It
certainly doesn't foster community spirit.

>
> I might be wrong but I'm assuming it's the unpopulated 2 rows of 12
> pins between the keyboard and the cartridge port. If so then it's not
> the best compromise.
How would you have compromised?

Jim
--

Jim Brain
[hidden email]
www.jbrain.com


       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

silverdr-2

> On 2017-07-17, at 19:32, Jim Brain <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I might be wrong but I'm assuming it's the unpopulated 2 rows of 12 pins between the keyboard and the cartridge port. If so then it's not the best compromise.
> How would you have compromised?

The only thing IMHO worth considering would be to move the header close to the original opening and centred there rather than being placed far across the board (for several reasons). But it might also be that things are already pretty dense there with more sensitive stuff so it may not be so obviously easy. In any case that's what I shall suggest to Gideon.

--
SD! - http://e4aws.silverdr.com/


       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

Justin-2
In reply to this post by Jim Brain
I think the engineering effort by Gideon on this is nothing short of heroic, and I have no problem with this compromise.

If I were to speculate on how to “save” the user port, and had infinite engineering resources to pour into it, I’d have used USB-C connectors for power, USB, and modern video out.  Odds are that with a replacement trim panel they could be fit into the joystick and power side panel, or maybe even alongside the user, tape, or cartridge edge connectors to claw back the user port real estate at the expense of forcing the user to buy bleeding edge cabling or adapters.

I like his inward-facing USB port.  Apple did that briefly with firewire ports, and while it never really got exercised, it seemed like a cool idea.

Justin

> On Jul 17, 2017, at 13:32, Jim Brain <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 7/17/2017 11:19 AM, smf wrote:
>> On 17/07/2017 16:34, [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>>> I understand his choice and this was one of the things I also suggested. This is a compromise.
>>
>> I get that, but I'm still disappointed.
> Do you (or any of you on the list) understand how absolutely devastating that viewpoint is to those who consider building solutions for the platform?
>
> I realize everyone is entitled to an opinion, and this list should discuss the merits of such an omission as part of normal discourse, but the implications of making such blanket statements are far-reaching.  It certainly doesn't foster community spirit.
>
>>
>> I might be wrong but I'm assuming it's the unpopulated 2 rows of 12 pins between the keyboard and the cartridge port. If so then it's not the best compromise.
> How would you have compromised?
>
> Jim
> --
>
> Jim Brain
> [hidden email]
> www.jbrain.com
>
>
>      Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
>


smime.p7s (4K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

Jim Brain
On 7/17/2017 12:50 PM, Justin wrote:
> I think the engineering effort by Gideon on this is nothing short of heroic, and I have no problem with this compromise.
>
> If I were to speculate on how to “save” the user port, and had infinite engineering resources to pour into it, I’d have used USB-C connectors for power, USB, and modern video out.  Odds are that with a replacement trim panel they could be fit into the joystick and power side panel, or maybe even alongside the user, tape, or cartridge edge connectors to claw back the user port real estate at the expense of forcing the user to buy bleeding edge cabling or adapters.
Possibly, but I think the joy connectors are a huge draw, and having to
buy expensive adapters or cables just to enjoy the limited use of a port
that has the least utility (save maybe for the cassette port, but there
are passionate folks who guard the cassette port with their lives, while
there evidently is only a handful of people so passionate about the user
port).

JIm

>
> I like his inward-facing USB port.  Apple did that briefly with firewire ports, and while it never really got exercised, it seemed like a cool idea.
>
> Justin
>
>

       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

Justin-2
I was thinking of the space where the power in is, and between it and the joy connectors - not replacing them.  You should be able to fit several USB-C ports there, and they are thin enough that they probably would not be annoying like a full size HDMI port or the like.  The slick approach using the power port (where he has put 12V DC) would be to be able do power/data/video all over one USB-C cable.  Then you could just plug the machine into any recent display that offers power over USB-C and be done.  If you needed more USB connections for some reason, those monitors always have hubs built into them.  Or you could use a splitter/dongle that still uses USB-C for power injection but gives you female HDMI and USB.

Justin

> On Jul 17, 2017, at 14:06, Jim Brain <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 7/17/2017 12:50 PM, Justin wrote:
>> I think the engineering effort by Gideon on this is nothing short of heroic, and I have no problem with this compromise.
>>
>> If I were to speculate on how to “save” the user port, and had infinite engineering resources to pour into it, I’d have used USB-C connectors for power, USB, and modern video out.  Odds are that with a replacement trim panel they could be fit into the joystick and power side panel, or maybe even alongside the user, tape, or cartridge edge connectors to claw back the user port real estate at the expense of forcing the user to buy bleeding edge cabling or adapters.
> Possibly, but I think the joy connectors are a huge draw, and having to buy expensive adapters or cables just to enjoy the limited use of a port that has the least utility (save maybe for the cassette port, but there are passionate folks who guard the cassette port with their lives, while there evidently is only a handful of people so passionate about the user port).
>
> JIm
>
>>
>> I like his inward-facing USB port.  Apple did that briefly with firewire ports, and while it never really got exercised, it seemed like a cool idea.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>>
>
>      Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
>


smime.p7s (4K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

Gerrit Heitsch
In reply to this post by Justin-2
On 07/17/2017 07:50 PM, Justin wrote:
> I like his inward-facing USB port.  Apple did that briefly with firewire ports, and while it never really got exercised, it seemed like a cool idea.

Not only Apple... Some rackmount servers have internal USB ports. You
can use them to add a USB stick as a way to boot if the OS on the main
disks fails (bad patch... upgrade gone wrong...) to fix it. Might save
you a trip to the data center, especially if that DC is not around the
corner.

  Gerrit

       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

Ethan Dicks
In reply to this post by Jim Brain
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 2:06 PM, Jim Brain <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Possibly, but I think the joy connectors are a huge draw, and having to buy
> expensive adapters or cables just to enjoy the limited use of a port that
> has the least utility (save maybe for the cassette port, but there are
> passionate folks who guard the cassette port with their lives, while there
> evidently is only a handful of people so passionate about the user port).

I am passionate about the User Port, but I have no problems with it
not being clearly a 0.154"-spacing edge connector - one of the first
things I usually do is make a cable from there anyway, so a 24-pin
internal connector is just fine by me.

In the past, besides serial comms, I've used the User Port connector
for a 4-bit bidirectional port w/handshaking for binary transfer to
another Commodore machine (VIC-20 or PET), I've made external
keyboards, and I've made a variety of LED harnesses (including a
2-digit 7-segment display).  What I never did was use any sort of
8-bit-parallel add-on for JiffyDOS or the like, and perhaps that's
what has some people up in arms - their old cables won't just work.

I think it's an interesting design, and while I might not be able to
afford one, I do think that having _some_ way to access the User Port
is a lot better than _no_ way.

-ethan

       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The Ultimate-64

Justin-2
In reply to this post by Gerrit Heitsch
Yeah I use these to boot ESXi on otherwise diskless systems.  I just first remember seeing an external accessory port on the inside of a machine with a female firewire header on the motherboard of the old power macs back in 2001 or 2002, but I’m sure someone else did something similar for whatever reason before Apple. This not a thing I have researched.

But that gives me another idea.  This design leaves vast amounts of space inside the case.  You could fit an enormous Li-Poly (or whatever) battery in the 64 after this conversion, and then connect it to an internal USB header to power the thing.

> On Jul 17, 2017, at 14:15, Gerrit Heitsch <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 07/17/2017 07:50 PM, Justin wrote:
>> I like his inward-facing USB port.  Apple did that briefly with firewire ports, and while it never really got exercised, it seemed like a cool idea.
>
> Not only Apple... Some rackmount servers have internal USB ports. You can use them to add a USB stick as a way to boot if the OS on the main disks fails (bad patch... upgrade gone wrong...) to fix it. Might save you a trip to the data center, especially if that DC is not around the corner.
>
> Gerrit
>
>      Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
>


smime.p7s (4K) Download Attachment
123
Loading...