PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

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PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Steve Gray
Hi All,

With my interest in PET graphics boards, and other various audio/video/scren related boards for the PET and Inspired by Andre's hardware add-ons page I decided to try to make a visual reference page of the various boards and projects that are out there. Please check it out. If you know of any other boards or find errors or have comments please email me.



Steve
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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

André Fachat


Am 22. März 2018 02:29:20 schrieb Steve Gray <[hidden email]>:

Hi All,

With my interest in PET graphics boards, and other various audio/video/scren related boards for the PET and Inspired by Andre's hardware add-ons page I decided to try to make a visual reference page of the various boards and projects that are out there. Please check it out. If you know of any other boards or find errors or have comments please email me.



Steve
Hi Steve,

Great work and thanks for sharing! 

André
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RE: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud)
In reply to this post by Steve Gray

Hallo Steve,

 

 

> http://www.6502.org/users/sjgray/computer/petgraphics/index.html

> ... This board is being reverse engineered by Ruud Baltissen. .....

 

Please PM me at my ORG address and I'll send you the Eagle files and disassembly to put on your site.

 

 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards, Ruud Baltissen

 

www.Baltissen.org

 

 

 



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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

AndyG
Cool stuff Steve......

Regards
Andy

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Mar 2018, at 07:37, Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud) <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hallo Steve,

 

 

> http://www.6502.org/users/sjgray/computer/petgraphics/index.html

> ... This board is being reverse engineered by Ruud Baltissen. .....

 

Please PM me at my ORG address and I'll send you the Eagle files and disassembly to put on your site.

 

 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards, Ruud Baltissen

 

www.Baltissen.org

 

 

 



De informatie in dit e-mailbericht is vertrouwelijk en uitsluitend bestemd voor de
geadresseerde. Wanneer u dit bericht per abuis ontvangt, verzoeken wij u contact op te
nemen met de afzender per kerende e-mail. Verder verzoeken wij u in dat geval dit
e-mailbericht te vernietigen en de inhoud ervan aan niemand openbaar te maken.
Wij aanvaarden geen aansprakelijkheid voor onjuiste, onvolledige dan wel ontijdige
overbrenging van de inhoud van een verzonden e-mailbericht, noch voor daarbij
overgebrachte virussen.

APG Groep N.V. is gevestigd te Heerlen en is ingeschreven in het
handelsregister van de Kamer van Koophandel Limburg onder nummer 14099617


The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be privileged.
It may be read, copied and used only by the intended recipient.
If you have received it in error, please contact the sender immediately by
return e-mail; please delete in this case the e-mail and do not disclose its
contents to any person. We don't accept liability for any errors, omissions,
delays of receipt or viruses in the contents of this message which arise as a
result of e-mail transmission.

APG Groep N.V. is registered in the trade register of the Chamber
of Commerce Limburg, The Netherlands, registration number: 14099617
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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Nils Eilers
In reply to this post by Steve Gray
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 01:27:40 +0000 (UTC)
Steve Gray <[hidden email]> wrote:

> With my interest in PET graphics boards, and other various audio/video/scren related boards for the PET and Inspired by Andre's hardware add-ons page I decided to try to make a visual reference page of the various boards and projects that are out there. Please check it out. If you know of any other boards or find errors or have comments please email me.
> http://www.6502.org/users/sjgray/computer/petgraphics/index.html

Very well done! Thanks a lot for this interesting overview!

Nils


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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Ethan Dicks
In reply to this post by Steve Gray
On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:27 PM, Steve Gray <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> With my interest in PET graphics boards, and other various audio/video/scren
> related boards for the PET...
>
> http://www.6502.org/users/sjgray/computer/petgraphics/index.html

Very cool!  I've had a PET since 1979 and some of these items I
remember ads for but could never afford.

-ethan

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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Mike Stein
In reply to this post by Steve Gray


----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Gray
To: CBM Hackers List
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 9:27 PM
Subject: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards


> Hi All,


> ...I decided to try to make a visual reference page of the various boards and projects that are out there.
 
http://www.6502.org/users/sjgray/computer/petgraphics/index.html

> Steve
 
------------------
Nice! Never realized just how many graphic etc. addons there were ...
 
m
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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Mike Naberezny
In reply to this post by Steve Gray
On 3/21/18 6:27 PM, Steve Gray wrote:
> http://www.6502.org/users/sjgray/computer/petgraphics/index.html

Some of these photos were taken from newsletters or magazines.  I suggest
listing the original sources.

There's a similar index of hard drives here:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/spacetaxi64/HD-HISTORY/C64HD-HISTORY.html

Years after that page was created, I found it while searching for info on the
Small Systems Engineering MW-1000.  That page has the only known photo of the
MW-1000.  When I wrote to the owner of the page, he could not remember where
the photo came from.  Its original source has still not been found.

Regards,
Mike

--
Mike Naberezny ([hidden email]) http://6502.org


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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Steve Gray
That's a good point Mike. I will add sources that I have.

Steve



From: Mike Naberezny <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

On 3/21/18 6:27 PM, Steve Gray wrote:

Some of these photos were taken from newsletters or magazines.  I suggest
listing the original sources.

There's a similar index of hard drives here:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/spacetaxi64/HD-HISTORY/C64HD-HISTORY.html

Years after that page was created, I found it while searching for info on the
Small Systems Engineering MW-1000.  That page has the only known photo of the
MW-1000.  When I wrote to the owner of the page, he could not remember where
the photo came from.  Its original source has still not been found.

Regards,
Mike

--
Mike Naberezny ([hidden email]) http://6502.org





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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Michał Pleban
In reply to this post by Steve Gray
Hello!

Steve Gray wrote:

> http://www.6502.org/users/sjgray/computer/petgraphics/index.html

Good work!

I have a question about the hires graphics board for CBM-II. Your
description says: "With the CBM 7x0 it is also possible to display the
hires graphics on the built-in monitor." How exactly is it achieved,
when the board is connected externally to the expansion port?

Regards,
Michau.



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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

vossi
the internal monitor has 350s lines = hercules/mda.
In the 8032 the hsg-board displays the 256 lines in overscan mode (full
heigh) on the 200 lines monitor.
I don't think that the 7xx monitor is capable to display this...???
Christian



-----
greets
Christian
--
Sent from: http://cbm-hackers.2304266.n4.nabble.com/

greets
Christian
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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Christian Dirks
The 8296D uses the same CRT as the CBM 700.
The height of the picture has to be adjusted
to match the machine it is used on.
This is easily done with the pots on the CRT pcb.

Christian

Am 23.03.2018 um 11:42 schrieb vossi:
> the internal monitor has 350s lines = hercules/mda.
> In the 8032 the hsg-board displays the 256 lines in overscan mode (full
> heigh) on the 200 lines monitor.
> I don't think that the 7xx monitor is capable to display this...???
> Christian

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[hidden email]
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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

vossi
I just checked my monitors. Before this I noticed only the light and dark
green tubes!

You are right - the 8296D and the 7xx have the same monitor pcb (and the
darkgreen tube).
The 8096sk and the 8032sk have a different pcb and the light green tube.
It's possible that the older monitor is not capable to display the 350 lines
- I never tried it.

PS: with the hsg board installed I had to tune the picture-height in the sk
to see the whole screen. On the 1702 external connected I have exactly a
full screen pic with the hsg.

Christian



-----
greets
Christian
--
Sent from: http://cbm-hackers.2304266.n4.nabble.com/

greets
Christian
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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Steve Gray
In reply to this post by Michał Pleban
Hi,

My page says:

 "This is the CBM-II version of the HSG board. It is an external box that plugs into the cartridge slot, however I have also seen this mounted internally in a CBM-II High Profile machine. "

The "more info" link takes you to another site (wfking), not mine. You quoted his page.

So, the box has 3 video ports, Video in, Video Out, and Composite. I'm assuming it came with cables to connect the motherboard video to the "video in" and then feed the "video out" back into the machine to the internal monitor. Of course I don't know for sure since I do not have one.  I do have the PET version of the HSG, and you can read the manual. The PET version was mapped into the $A000-AFFF option rom with $A000-AEFF being firmware, and $AF00-AFFF being used for the graphics chip registers.

 The CBM-II version looks identical in layout and connectors, except that it is missing the power section of the board. The CBM-II cartridge contains the ROM and some logic chips with ribbon cable to the board, plugging into the ROM socket. 

Steve


From: Michał Pleban <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Hello!


Good work!

I have a question about the hires graphics board for CBM-II. Your
description says: "With the CBM 7x0 it is also possible to display the
hires graphics on the built-in monitor." How exactly is it achieved,
when the board is connected externally to the expansion port?

Regards,
Michau.






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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

MiaM
In reply to this post by vossi
Den Fri, 23 Mar 2018 07:26:04 -0700 (MST) skrev vossi <[hidden email]>:

> I just checked my monitors. Before this I noticed only the light and
> dark green tubes!
>
> You are right - the 8296D and the 7xx have the same monitor pcb (and
> the darkgreen tube).
> The 8096sk and the 8032sk have a different pcb and the light green
> tube. It's possible that the older monitor is not capable to display
> the 350 lines
> - I never tried it.
>
> PS: with the hsg board installed I had to tune the picture-height in
> the sk to see the whole screen. On the 1702 external connected I have
> exactly a full screen pic with the hsg.

My 8296 (not D) uses 8 pixels high characters for upper case /
"graphics character" mode, and switches to insert some blank lines
between each character in lower case mode.

With 2 blank lines between each character row which itself is 8 video
lines, you get 25 rows of 10 video lines each, minus that you don't
need to show the two blank lines outside visible text, giving 248 lines
displayed on screen. With rather large borders it might be possible to
display 350 lines in that mode.

P.S. this must mean that 8296 has another ROM than the 8096 and 8032,
right?

I were so sure that all PETs used 15kHz monitors, and not the 18kHz
MDA/Hercules monitors. But my 8296 is suspiciously silent compared to
most 15kHz monitors, even smaller black and white, which usually
screams really annoyning at 15kHz.

--
(\_/) Copy the bunny to your mails to help
(O.o) him achieve world domination.
(> <) Come join the dark side.
/_|_\ We have cookies.

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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Steve Gray
No, the 8296 (and D) use exactly the same character rom. The 4000 and 8000 series machines can also do this 10-pixel tall character height thing. On all these PETs there is a little circuit that ensures that only the first 8 pixels are displayed and that the 2 extra lines (or more) are blank.

Steve



From: Mia Magnusson <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Den Fri, 23 Mar 2018 07:26:04 -0700 (MST) skrev vossi <[hidden email]>:

> I just checked my monitors. Before this I noticed only the light and
> dark green tubes!
>
> You are right - the 8296D and the 7xx have the same monitor pcb (and
> the darkgreen tube).
> The 8096sk and the 8032sk have a different pcb and the light green
> tube. It's possible that the older monitor is not capable to display
> the 350 lines
> - I never tried it.
>
> PS: with the hsg board installed I had to tune the picture-height in
> the sk to see the whole screen. On the 1702 external connected I have
> exactly a full screen pic with the hsg.

My 8296 (not D) uses 8 pixels high characters for upper case /
"graphics character" mode, and switches to insert some blank lines
between each character in lower case mode.

With 2 blank lines between each character row which itself is 8 video
lines, you get 25 rows of 10 video lines each, minus that you don't
need to show the two blank lines outside visible text, giving 248 lines
displayed on screen. With rather large borders it might be possible to
display 350 lines in that mode.

P.S. this must mean that 8296 has another ROM than the 8096 and 8032,

right?


I were so sure that all PETs used 15kHz monitors, and not the 18kHz
MDA/Hercules monitors. But my 8296 is suspiciously silent compared to
most 15kHz monitors, even smaller black and white, which usually
screams really annoyning at 15kHz.

--
(\_/) Copy the bunny to your mails to help
(O.o) him achieve world domination.
(> <) Come join the dark side.
/_|_\ We have cookies.




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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Christian Dirks
In reply to this post by MiaM
AFAIK only he 8296*D* uses the same CRT as the 700,
not the 8296.

I uploaded the schematics for the CBM 700 / 8296D CRT to zimmers a
minute ago.

Christian


Am 24.03.2018 um 01:16 schrieb Mia Magnusson:

> this must mean that 8296 has another ROM than the 8096 and 8032,
> right?
>
> I were so sure that all PETs used 15kHz monitors, and not the 18kHz
> MDA/Hercules monitors. But my 8296 is suspiciously silent compared to
> most 15kHz monitors, even smaller black and white, which usually
> screams really annoyning at 15kHz.
>

--
Christian Dirks
[hidden email]
Vorster Str. 66
47918 Tönsivorst

2. Stellv. Vorsitzender
Verein zum Erhalt klassischer Computer e.V.
http://www.classic-computing.de/


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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

MiaM
In reply to this post by Steve Gray
Den Sat, 24 Mar 2018 00:21:39 +0000 (UTC) skrev Steve Gray
<[hidden email]>:
> No, the 8296 (and D) use exactly the same character rom. The 4000 and
> 8000 series machines can also do this 10-pixel tall character height
> thing. On all these PETs there is a little circuit that ensures that
> only the first 8 pixels are displayed and that the 2 extra lines (or
> more) are blank. Steve

Oh, so does this mean that the monitor is a multi sync (15 and 18 kHz),
or is the 350 line information about the B series monitor incorrect?

Or is it rather that (especially US versions) the low profile with
external monitor versions of the B series uses fixed frequencies for
both vertical and horisontal, and thus can't have more than 8 scan
lines per character row, but the high profile buildt in monitor
versions can use 50Hz even in "NTSC land"?

>       From: Mia Magnusson <[hidden email]>
>  To: [hidden email]
>  Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 8:16 PM
>  Subject: Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards
>    
> Den Fri, 23 Mar 2018 07:26:04 -0700 (MST) skrev vossi
> <[hidden email]>:
> > I just checked my monitors. Before this I noticed only the light and
> > dark green tubes!
> >
> > You are right - the 8296D and the 7xx have the same monitor pcb (and
> > the darkgreen tube).
> > The 8096sk and the 8032sk have a different pcb and the light green
> > tube. It's possible that the older monitor is not capable to display
> > the 350 lines
> > - I never tried it.
> >
> > PS: with the hsg board installed I had to tune the picture-height in
> > the sk to see the whole screen. On the 1702 external connected I
> > have exactly a full screen pic with the hsg.
>
> My 8296 (not D) uses 8 pixels high characters for upper case /
> "graphics character" mode, and switches to insert some blank lines
> between each character in lower case mode.
>
> With 2 blank lines between each character row which itself is 8 video
> lines, you get 25 rows of 10 video lines each, minus that you don't
> need to show the two blank lines outside visible text, giving 248
> lines displayed on screen. With rather large borders it might be
> possible to display 350 lines in that mode.
>
> P.S. this must mean that 8296 has another ROM than the 8096 and 8032,
> right?
>
> I were so sure that all PETs used 15kHz monitors, and not the 18kHz
> MDA/Hercules monitors. But my 8296 is suspiciously silent compared to
> most 15kHz monitors, even smaller black and white, which usually
> screams really annoyning at 15kHz.
>



--
(\_/) Copy the bunny to your mails to help
(O.o) him achieve world domination.
(> <) Come join the dark side.
/_|_\ We have cookies.

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Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Steve Gray
The first PET models with 9" tube had a fixed 15kHz scan rate which were compatible with NTSC monitors. Later CRTC chip models (ie: 4000, 8000, 8296 and SuperPET with 12" tubes had 20kHz scan rates. The CRTC models can be re-programmed to output 15kHz to be NTSC compatible, or even PAL compatible. 

The 12" monitors themselves have controls to adjust the screen and I have been able to get them to sync to 15kHz but not perfectly. The CBM-II (B-series) machines come in LP and HP models. The LP models have NTSC or PAL output (controlled by a jumper on the board) so are 15kHz roughly. The HP models with internal monitor are 17-18kHz. Yes, the HP does 350 lines.

In terms of scanlines, the CRTC controller has 5 lines (labelled RA0 - RA4) which allows them to have character heights up to 32 lines. It's all programmable. So basically the number of rows and columns and character heights all figure in to what type of video output the system can generate, and what type of monitor is supported. The 6545 CRTC controller is very flexible and was even used in early PC video cards MDA, CGA, EGA and even form the basis of the controller chips in VGA cards. The thing about the CRTC chip is it's really just a programmable counter, and the actual video generation must be handled external to the chip. That's why for example, I could modify the PET to do colour video.

Steve



From: Mia Magnusson <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards

Den Sat, 24 Mar 2018 00:21:39 +0000 (UTC) skrev Steve Gray
<[hidden email]>:
> No, the 8296 (and D) use exactly the same character rom. The 4000 and
> 8000 series machines can also do this 10-pixel tall character height
> thing. On all these PETs there is a little circuit that ensures that
> only the first 8 pixels are displayed and that the 2 extra lines (or
> more) are blank. Steve

Oh, so does this mean that the monitor is a multi sync (15 and 18 kHz),
or is the 350 line information about the B series monitor incorrect?

Or is it rather that (especially US versions) the low profile with
external monitor versions of the B series uses fixed frequencies for
both vertical and horisontal, and thus can't have more than 8 scan
lines per character row, but the high profile buildt in monitor
versions can use 50Hz even in "NTSC land"?


>      From: Mia Magnusson <[hidden email]>
>  To: [hidden email]
>  Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 8:16 PM
>  Subject: Re: PET Graphic, Font, 40/80, Composite and Audio Boards
>   
> Den Fri, 23 Mar 2018 07:26:04 -0700 (MST) skrev vossi
> <[hidden email]>:
> > I just checked my monitors. Before this I noticed only the light and
> > dark green tubes!
> >
> > You are right - the 8296D and the 7xx have the same monitor pcb (and
> > the darkgreen tube).
> > The 8096sk and the 8032sk have a different pcb and the light green
> > tube. It's possible that the older monitor is not capable to display
> > the 350 lines
> > - I never tried it.
> >
> > PS: with the hsg board installed I had to tune the picture-height in
> > the sk to see the whole screen. On the 1702 external connected I
> > have exactly a full screen pic with the hsg.
>
> My 8296 (not D) uses 8 pixels high characters for upper case /
> "graphics character" mode, and switches to insert some blank lines
> between each character in lower case mode.
>
> With 2 blank lines between each character row which itself is 8 video
> lines, you get 25 rows of 10 video lines each, minus that you don't
> need to show the two blank lines outside visible text, giving 248
> lines displayed on screen. With rather large borders it might be
> possible to display 350 lines in that mode.
>
> P.S. this must mean that 8296 has another ROM than the 8096 and 8032,
> right?
>
> I were so sure that all PETs used 15kHz monitors, and not the 18kHz
> MDA/Hercules monitors. But my 8296 is suspiciously silent compared to
> most 15kHz monitors, even smaller black and white, which usually
> screams really annoyning at 15kHz.
>



--
(\_/) Copy the bunny to your mails to help
(O.o) him achieve world domination.
(> <) Come join the dark side.
/_|_\ We have cookies.