Induced interference that can be measured (c64)

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Induced interference that can be measured (c64)

nejat76
Hi there,

Just out of curiosity, I got a crazy idea. Is there any means to
detect an external signal be it light / sound / magnetism / heat etc.
on the C64? I know there isn't a proper one, and the thing is almost
digital except sid chip.

The idea here is : Input a small program to C64, run it. Run a data
transfer software on a phone and transmit data to the software on the
c64 using that covert channel. So possibly heat and magnetism is out
of scope since we can't induce those easily with a phone :)

The closest possibility coming to my mind is : inducing interference
on the POTX / POTY lines. They seem to be connected directly to the
sid. Say anything that can change the analog value read from those
cycles would be  a candidate.

I don't think we can do anything with light I guess and the soundwaves
are possibly very out of spectrum to induce anything on these analog
circuits.

What do you think?

Regards,

Nejat

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Re: Induced interference that can be measured (c64)

Luke Crook

Use gamma rays to flip bits in RAM.


On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 15:11 Nejat Dilek <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi there,

Just out of curiosity, I got a crazy idea. Is there any means to
detect an external signal be it light / sound / magnetism / heat etc.
on the C64? I know there isn't a proper one, and the thing is almost
digital except sid chip.

The idea here is : Input a small program to C64, run it. Run a data
transfer software on a phone and transmit data to the software on the
c64 using that covert channel. So possibly heat and magnetism is out
of scope since we can't induce those easily with a phone :)

The closest possibility coming to my mind is : inducing interference
on the POTX / POTY lines. They seem to be connected directly to the
sid. Say anything that can change the analog value read from those
cycles would be  a candidate.

I don't think we can do anything with light I guess and the soundwaves
are possibly very out of spectrum to induce anything on these analog
circuits.

What do you think?

Regards,

Nejat

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Re: Induced interference that can be measured (c64)

silverdr@wfmh.org.pl
In reply to this post by nejat76

> On 2018-05-04, at 00:10, Nejat Dilek <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> Just out of curiosity, I got a crazy idea. Is there any means to
> detect an external signal be it light / sound / magnetism / heat etc.

Electromagnetism? Just in case you run out of gamma rays ;-)

https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/WLAN

You may also try the good'old acoustic coupler (Akustikkoppler in German)

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akustikkoppler

if you truly want to feel the blues...

--
SD! - http://e4aws.silverdr.com/


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Re: Induced interference that can be measured (c64)

Groepaz
Am Freitag, 4. Mai 2018, 14:54:23 CEST schrieb [hidden email]:

> > On 2018-05-04, at 00:10, Nejat Dilek <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Just out of curiosity, I got a crazy idea. Is there any means to
> > detect an external signal be it light / sound / magnetism / heat etc.
>
> Electromagnetism? Just in case you run out of gamma rays ;-)
>
> https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/WLAN
>
> You may also try the good'old acoustic coupler (Akustikkoppler in German)
>
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akustikkoppler
>
> if you truly want to feel the blues...

what you can measure relatively easily are the fluctations in the power grid
frequency (measure the TOD clock cycles against CIA-Timer cycles)

--

http://hitmen.eu                 http://ar.pokefinder.org
http://vice-emu.sourceforge.net  http://magicdisk.untergrund.net

Die Berühmtheit mancher Zeitgenossen hängt mit der
Blödheit der Bewunderer zusammen.
<Heiner Geissler>





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Re: Induced interference that can be measured (c64)

silverdr@wfmh.org.pl

> On 2018-05-04, at 15:15, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>>> Just out of curiosity, I got a crazy idea. Is there any means to
>>> detect an external signal be it light / sound / magnetism / heat etc.
>>
>> Electromagnetism? Just in case you run out of gamma rays ;-)
>>
>> https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/WLAN
>>
>> You may also try the good'old acoustic coupler (Akustikkoppler in German)
>>
>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akustikkoppler
>>
>> if you truly want to feel the blues...
>
> what you can measure relatively easily are the fluctations in the power grid
> frequency (measure the TOD clock cycles against CIA-Timer cycles)

Unless you run the PRG on an SX ;-)

--
SD! - http://e4aws.silverdr.com/


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Re: Induced interference that can be measured (c64)

nejat76
On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 3:50 AM, Luke Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Use gamma rays to flip bits in RAM.
>

Well if I ever willingly be able to produce gamma rays, I think I
would use them on (or should it be "through") something else then RAM.

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 3:54 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Electromagnetism? Just in case you run out of gamma rays ;-)
>
> https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/WLAN
>
> You may also try the good'old acoustic coupler (Akustikkoppler in German)
>
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akustikkoppler
>
> if you truly want to feel the blues...

Hmm, Empty tape deck, azimuth aligner running. Let's see if we can
induce any change in the signal.


On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 4:15 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> what you can measure relatively easily are the fluctations in the power grid
> frequency (measure the TOD clock cycles against CIA-Timer cycles)
>

It wouldn't be easy to induce any change in the frequency of the power
grid though, with something like a smart phone I mean.

Regards,

Nejat

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Re: Induced interference that can be measured (c64)

Groepaz
Am Freitag, 4. Mai 2018, 17:12:00 CEST schrieb Nejat Dilek:
> On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 4:15 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > what you can measure relatively easily are the fluctations in the power
> > grid frequency (measure the TOD clock cycles against CIA-Timer cycles)
>
> It wouldn't be easy to induce any change in the frequency of the power
> grid though, with something like a smart phone I mean.

all you need is a powerful amplifier and magnet =D

--

http://hitmen.eu                 http://ar.pokefinder.org
http://vice-emu.sourceforge.net  http://magicdisk.untergrund.net

She was so wild that when she made French toast she got her tongue caught in
the toaster.
<Rodney Dangerfield>





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Re: Induced interference that can be measured (c64)

Luke Crook
In reply to this post by nejat76
Here is the XKCD reference :)



On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 08:13 Nejat Dilek <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 3:50 AM, Luke Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Use gamma rays to flip bits in RAM.
>

Well if I ever willingly be able to produce gamma rays, I think I
would use them on (or should it be "through") something else then RAM.


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Re: Induced interference that can be measured (c64)

Justin-2
Fortunately macOS built in TextEdit uses emacs key bindings so you can still enter those old Compute Gazette hex encoded programs using butterflies.

Justin

On May 4, 2018, at 11:18, Luke Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:

Here is the XKCD reference :)



On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 08:13 Nejat Dilek <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 3:50 AM, Luke Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Use gamma rays to flip bits in RAM.
>

Well if I ever willingly be able to produce gamma rays, I think I
would use them on (or should it be "through") something else then RAM.