GAL running hot

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Re: programming Atmel GALs (was: GAL running hot)

silverdr@wfmh.org.pl

> On 2018-05-26, at 23:28, dave_m <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> You should use the Atmel version of WinCupl to generate your PAL Design
> Specification file and output the JEDEC file.
> [...]
> Below is the link to the free Atmel WinCupl software.
>
> Microchip (ATMEL)
> <http://www.microchip.com/design-centers/programmable-logic/spld-cpld/tools/software/wincupl>  

I have a JEDEC file. It doesn't come from Cupl workflow but the way I understand things, this shouldn't matter at all. It's - kind of - like a binary payload for the [E(E)]PROM in the sense that it shouldn't really matter how I built it, should it?

> To program the 16V8 and 22V10
> they used to recommend the Wellon VP-290 which cost about $160 USD. The
> latest version may be the VP-299. The combination of the Atmel Wincupl and
> Wellon works well.

That might be a helpful hint! Do you have any docs/links where they recommend this one?

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Re: programming Atmel GALs

Michał Pleban
In reply to this post by silverdr@wfmh.org.pl
Hello!

[hidden email] wrote:

> They definitely are different and need to be programmed differently. There are no doubts about it. The doubts and problem are that programmers/software, which are supposed to support programming Atmel chips fail miserably here. Do I understand correctly that you also used programmers, which - according to the specs - should be able to program Atmel GALs but they didn't?

Yes, that is correct. My programmer (EasyPro 90B) has separate choices
for Lattice and Atmel GALs, but even when I select Atmel, it cannot
program Atmel chips.

Regards,
Michau.


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Re: programming Atmel GALs

silverdr@wfmh.org.pl

> On 2018-05-28, at 10:38, Michał Pleban <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> They definitely are different and need to be programmed differently. There are no doubts about it. The doubts and problem are that programmers/software, which are supposed to support programming Atmel chips fail miserably here. Do I understand correctly that you also used programmers, which - according to the specs - should be able to program Atmel GALs but they didn't?
>
> Yes, that is correct. My programmer (EasyPro 90B) has separate choices
> for Lattice and Atmel GALs, but even when I select Atmel, it cannot
> program Atmel chips.

OK, TNX. That makes the chances that my chips aren't actually faulty, somewhat higher.

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Re: programming Atmel GALs

silverdr@wfmh.org.pl

> On 2018-05-28, at 15:27, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>>> They definitely are different and need to be programmed differently. There are no doubts about it. The doubts and problem are that programmers/software, which are supposed to support programming Atmel chips fail miserably here. Do I understand correctly that you also used programmers, which - according to the specs - should be able to program Atmel GALs but they didn't?
>>
>> Yes, that is correct. My programmer (EasyPro 90B) has separate choices
>> for Lattice and Atmel GALs, but even when I select Atmel, it cannot
>> program Atmel chips.
>
> OK, TNX. That makes the chances that my chips aren't actually faulty, somewhat higher.

In fact - the next, unfortunately an order of magnitude more expensive, programmer programs them just fine.

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Re: GAL running hot

silverdr@wfmh.org.pl
In reply to this post by silverdr@wfmh.org.pl

> On 2018-04-20, at 19:00, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>>>>> Unfortunately not /that/ GAL.. anyway - I made a small circuit (the first successful one in KiCAD I wrote about not long ago) for the 64 that employs the small 16V8 GAL chip. All works fine but the (Lattice) chip runs surprisingly hot. Does anyone have any experience with GALs and with what can affect their power consumption?
>>>>
>>>> In my experience, old PALs and GALs run hot,
>>> The datasheet says it should take in the range of 70mA, which makes it less than half W. Yeah, much more than an LS chip but OTOH not /that/ much..
>>
>> Yes, but half a watt in such a small case gets quite hot. A 6569 VIC in a C64 uses about 1.5W (200mA/5V and about 40mA/12V) and gets pretty hot (above 60C on the surface without heatsink).
>
> True, and the case is small - especially that it's a PLCC - so it might actually be something to learn to live with. I am still wondering if the power usage could be noticeably depending on the way it is programmed, which pins are used, etc. I'll check the Atmel once I get a programmer that can handle them. I needed to use Lattice as it was the only type my programmer could work reliably with but Atmel advertises lower currents in their datasheet.

Eventually managed to program Atmel chip and the result is very satisfying. It runs at noticeably lower temp than the Lattice did, well in the acceptable range of highly scientific, worl-wide recongnised "doesn't burn your fingers" ISO/IEEE norm ;-)

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Re: programming Atmel GALs

Konrad B
In reply to this post by silverdr@wfmh.org.pl
2018-06-07 12:35 GMT+02:00  <[hidden email]>:
>
> [...] an order of magnitude more expensive, programmer

Which is a ... ?

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Re: programming Atmel GALs

silverdr@wfmh.org.pl

> On 2018-06-07, at 13:33, Konrad B <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> 2018-06-07 12:35 GMT+02:00  <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> [...] an order of magnitude more expensive, programmer
>
> Which is a ... ?

https://tinyurl.com/ybsfvt4t

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Re: programming Atmel GALs

silverdr@wfmh.org.pl
In reply to this post by Konrad B

> On 2018-06-07, at 13:33, Konrad B <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> 2018-06-07 12:35 GMT+02:00  <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> [...] an order of magnitude more expensive, programmer
>
> Which is a ... ?

Xeltek 610P

https://tinyurl.com/ybsfvt4t

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Re: GAL running hot

silverdr@wfmh.org.pl
In reply to this post by silverdr@wfmh.org.pl


> On 2018-06-07, at 12:44, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>>>>>> Unfortunately not /that/ GAL.. anyway - I made a small circuit (the first successful one in KiCAD I wrote about not long ago) for the 64 that employs the small 16V8 GAL chip. All works fine but the (Lattice) chip runs surprisingly hot. Does anyone have any experience with GALs and with what can affect their power consumption?
>>>>>
>>>>> In my experience, old PALs and GALs run hot,
>>>> The datasheet says it should take in the range of 70mA, which makes it less than half W. Yeah, much more than an LS chip but OTOH not /that/ much..
>>>
>>> Yes, but half a watt in such a small case gets quite hot. A 6569 VIC in a C64 uses about 1.5W (200mA/5V and about 40mA/12V) and gets pretty hot (above 60C on the surface without heatsink).
>>
>> True, and the case is small - especially that it's a PLCC - so it might actually be something to learn to live with. I am still wondering if the power usage could be noticeably depending on the way it is programmed, which pins are used, etc. I'll check the Atmel once I get a programmer that can handle them. I needed to use Lattice as it was the only type my programmer could work reliably with but Atmel advertises lower currents in their datasheet.
>
> Eventually managed to program Atmel chip and the result is very satisfying. It runs at noticeably lower temp than the Lattice did, well in the acceptable range of highly scientific, worl-wide recongnised "doesn't burn your fingers" ISO/IEEE norm ;-)

And last weekend I got eventually a "spare" hour and managed to program the ATF16V8BQL-15 with the same JEDEC file - the aim was to get as little power dissipation as possible. And yes - this one is a marvel in this field. I left it on for some good time and it runs barely warm.

Conclusion: I wasn't so much convinced before but I start falling in love with the late Atmel and their dedication to not only keep the 5V PLDs in program but also improve them so much. This newer BQL variant is like incomparable with the "original" Lattice. Highly recommended!

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