Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

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Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

Rob Clarke
Good afternoon gentlemen,

I have a couple of simple cartridge circuits that I’d like to build and
get made, one for the 64/MAX and one for the +4. I have working breadboard
prototypes and I now want to turn these into something that I can get a
few prototype boards made from.

This is my first foray into board design and fabrication so I need a bit
of hand holding. I know Didier asked a similar question last year so I
already pinged him directly but I as I am a great believer in reuse and
recycling, and I know from prior postings that there is a number of
experienced users of Eagle CAD here, does anyone have any Eagle CAD
designs for basic cartridge boards which I can use as a basis for my
designs?

Second, once I have something, could anyone provide a recommendation for a
company that can make small orders of boards in western Europe from
submitted eagle files?

Cheers,

Rob


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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

Jim Brain
I have a pretty good template for EAGLE for C64 cartridges, one that will fit in both types of cartridge case available today, as well as original CBM cases.
>
> Second, once I have something, could anyone provide a recommendation for a
> company that can make small orders of boards in western Europe from
> submitted eagle files?
EAGLE will create GERBER files (I have a tweaked job file that will create all the required files, including the drill file and a file showing board edges for EAGLE) and then you can send those anywhere.  I have 2 board shops that are very quick and economical and take Paypal as payment, which alleviates issues with bank transfers.  They are not, though, in Western Europe, so if that's a hard requirement, others will have to chime in.
 
Can't help with +4 at this time, though I would be interested in anything you find.
 
Jim
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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

Rob Clarke
Hi Jim,

> I have a pretty good template for EAGLE for C64 cartridges, one that will
> fit in
> both types of cartridge case available today, as well as original CBM
> cases.

That would be great if you could share that. It'd be much easier for me as
a beginner to adapt something that already exists rather than build
something from scratch, with due credit of course. :-)

>>
>> Second, once I have something, could anyone provide a recommendation for
>> a
>> company that can make small orders of boards in western Europe from
>> submitted eagle files?
> EAGLE will create GERBER files (I have a tweaked job file that will create
> all
> the required files, including the drill file and a file showing board
> edges for
> EAGLE) and then you can send those anywhere.  I have 2 board shops that
> are very
> quick and economical and take Paypal as payment, which alleviates issues
> with
> bank transfers.  They are not, though, in Western Europe, so if that's a
> hard
> requirement, others will have to chime in.

I just assumed that postage would be a factor but I guess it depends on
charges. Again, having no experience of this I have no idea what the
minimum order sizes are likely to be, but I hoped they would be <= 10
boards.

>
> Can't help with +4 at this time, though I would be interested in anything
> you
> find.

I'll be sure too.

Rob

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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

Konrad B
In reply to this post by Rob Clarke
Hi Rob,

2013/2/11 Rob Clarke <[hidden email]>
Second, once I have something, could anyone provide a recommendation for a
company that can make small orders of boards in western Europe from
submitted eagle files?
 
Well... not necessarily the Western Europe ;)  (AFAIR they are Hungary-based).
 
A friend of mine (the guy behind this stuff: http://www.boff.pl/?shop=1&p_id=5) told me he was quite happy with their service.
 
Regards,
Konrad
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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

André Fachat
In reply to this post by Rob Clarke
I'm quite happy with http://www.pcb-pool.com/

Andre


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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

Jim Brain
In reply to this post by Rob Clarke
On 2/11/2013 9:57 AM, Rob Clarke wrote:
> I just assumed that postage would be a factor but I guess it depends
> on charges. Again, having no experience of this I have no idea what
> the minimum order sizes are likely to be, but I hoped they would be <=
> 10 boards.
It's been my experience that, unless you are OK with 1 or 2 boards,
you're not going to get a PCB design for less than $100.00.  The good
news is, for that $100.00 (or equivalent in local currency), you can
usually do a production run and get 20-100 boards.

The exception, if you have the time, might be "batchpcb.com".  They
gather designs from hobbyists around the world, do a run every so often,
and ship the resulting boards out.  But, the rub is the wait until the
"hopper" tips and the run is scheduled.

A cart-sized board will cost ~$1.00 to produce, and there is typically a
$50.00 tooling charge.  Shipping is ~$30.00 for <50 boards of that size,
anywhere in the world, might be cheaper.  So, 20 boards would be
~100.00USD, give or take.

My point:  By all means check out and price the 1-2-3 board prototype
places.  But, don't discount just running your prototype as a
"production" run.  The prototype houses typically restrict drill sizes,
routing options, via widths, plating options, and color options.  
Production houses relax or eliminate many of these restrictions.

Another tip:  If you have a set of boards you want in equal quantities,
grab a tool called GerbMerge and merge your designs into 1 big design
and ask for V-cut routing to create "snap edges" for the individual
designs.  The house will typically charge $10.00 for the V cut, but it's
cheaper than the $50.00USD tooling charge per design.  This also helps
with special plating options.  Gold Immersion (which is what I use on
all cart designs) is USD$30.00, but it's a flat charge for any design up
to a specific size.  So, by merging designs, you can further cut down on
costs.

On design, most prototype houses like 1mil traces or larger, and 12mil
is often their smallest drill.  Plan accordingly when doing vias and traces.

Jim

--
Jim Brain
[hidden email]
www.jbrain.com


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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

Gerrit Heitsch
In reply to this post by Rob Clarke
On 02/11/2013 03:54 PM, Rob Clarke wrote:
> Good afternoon gentlemen,
>
> I have a couple of simple cartridge circuits that I’d like to build and
> get made, one for the 64/MAX and one for the +4. I have working breadboard
> prototypes and I now want to turn these into something that I can get a
> few prototype boards made from.

Remember that the 264 series uses a non-standard cartridge connector
that doesn't use the normal 2.54mm spacing between contacts. That makes
it a rather big pain.

  Gerrit



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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

J.G.Harston
In reply to this post by Rob Clarke
Rob Clarke wrote:
> This is my first foray into board design and fabrication so I need a
> bit
...
> experienced users of Eagle CAD here, does anyone have any Eagle CAD
> designs for basic cartridge boards which I can use as a basis for my
> designs?

I use Paint Shop Pro for small PCBs. No, come back! For a small design
it's simple to create a PCB tracking diagram as a bitmap graphic. I use
30 pixels per 1/10" with the grid lock set to 15 pixels and tracks drawn
at 5 pixels wide, eg: http://mdfs.net/Info/Comp/BBC/IDE/8bit/pcbv4.gif

When complete, I crop off the guidance marks, save it as an
uncompressed JPEG and send it to my PCB fabricators who Eagle-ify it at
their end for a one-off extra fiver or so.

> Second, once I have something, could anyone provide a recommendation
> for a
> company that can make small orders of boards in western Europe from
> submitted eagle files?

One-Way Circuits (Norwich) do mine: http://www.onewaypcb.com/

--
J.G.Harston - [hidden email] - mdfs.net


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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

silverdr-2
In reply to this post by Rob Clarke

On 2013-02-11, at 15:54, Rob Clarke wrote:

> Second, once I have something, could anyone provide a recommendation for a
> company that can make small orders of boards in western Europe from
> submitted eagle files?

I make them in central Europe ;-) Price is very good when compared to most houses in western EU and quality for small batches is more than good enough. An example: 2 layers, 80mmx80mm, with one-side silk screen and both sides soldermask costs me about EUR25,- (plus VAT) for two PCBs made within two weeks. If you have your designs ready, I can order them for you and then mail to your address once they arrive. I guess that even with shipping to your place it can be a good value.

--
SD!
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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

Rob Clarke
Thanks for all the great info guys on and off list. It's late here and
I'm not long home so it'll be tomorrow before I get a chance to read
through it all!

night...

Rob

On 11/02/2013 23:24, [hidden email] wrote:
> On 2013-02-11, at 15:54, Rob Clarke wrote:
>
>> Second, once I have something, could anyone provide a recommendation for a
>> company that can make small orders of boards in western Europe from
>> submitted eagle files?
> I make them in central Europe ;-) Price is very good when compared to most houses in western EU and quality for small batches is more than good enough. An example: 2 layers, 80mmx80mm, with one-side silk screen and both sides soldermask costs me about EUR25,- (plus VAT) for two PCBs made within two weeks. If you have your designs ready, I can order them for you and then mail to your address once they arrive. I guess that even with shipping to your place it can be a good value.
>


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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

Michał Pleban
In reply to this post by silverdr-2
Hello!

[hidden email] wrote:

> I make them in central Europe ;-) Price is very good when compared to most houses in western EU and quality for small batches is more than good enough. An example: 2 layers, 80mmx80mm, with one-side silk screen and both sides soldermask costs me about EUR25,- (plus VAT) for two PCBs made within two weeks. If you have your designs ready, I can order them for you and then mail to your address once they arrive. I guess that even with shipping to your place it can be a good value.

Can you share where you order them? ;-)

Regards,
Michau.


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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

silverdr-2

On 2013-02-12, at 09:56, Michał Pleban wrote:

>> I make them in central Europe ;-) Price is very good when compared to most houses in western EU and quality for small batches is more than good enough. An example: 2 layers, 80mmx80mm, with one-side silk screen and both sides soldermask costs me about EUR25,- (plus VAT) for two PCBs made within two weeks. If you have your designs ready, I can order them for you and then mail to your address once they arrive. I guess that even with shipping to your place it can be a good value.
>
> Can you share where you order them? ;-)

drukowane.pl, I didn't include the link as the site doesn't seem to have English version. There are other options though.

--
SD!
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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

hegedusis
In reply to this post by Rob Clarke
Hi Rob,

I use www.eurocircuits.hu or www.eurocircuits.com.
Price of the proto board is 30 EUR and you get 2 pieces.
They are the cheapest and ship inside Europe.

Br
Istvan


-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Clarke
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 3:54 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

Good afternoon gentlemen,

I have a couple of simple cartridge circuits that I’d like to build and
get made, one for the 64/MAX and one for the +4. I have working breadboard
prototypes and I now want to turn these into something that I can get a
few prototype boards made from.

This is my first foray into board design and fabrication so I need a bit
of hand holding. I know Didier asked a similar question last year so I
already pinged him directly but I as I am a great believer in reuse and
recycling, and I know from prior postings that there is a number of
experienced users of Eagle CAD here, does anyone have any Eagle CAD
designs for basic cartridge boards which I can use as a basis for my
designs?

Second, once I have something, could anyone provide a recommendation for a
company that can make small orders of boards in western Europe from
submitted eagle files?

Cheers,

Rob


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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

Nils Stec
I can also recommend oshpark for making pcbs. Very cheap for prototypes and small series.

Greets,
Nils



"Hegedűs István" <[hidden email]> schrieb:
Hi Rob,

I use www.eurocircuits.hu or www.eurocircuits.com.
Price of the proto board is 30 EUR and you get 2 pieces.
They are the cheapest and ship inside Europe.

Br
Istvan


-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Clarke
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 3:54 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

Good afternoon gentlemen,

I have a couple of simple cartridge circuits that I’d like to build and
get made, one for the 64/MAX and one for the +4. I have working breadboard
prototypes and I now want to turn these into something that I can get a
few prototype boards made from.

This is my first foray into board design and fabr ication so I need a bit
of hand holding. I know Didier asked a similar question last year so I
already pinged him directly but I as I am a great believer in reuse and
recycling, and I know from prior postings that there is a number of
experienced users of Eagle CAD here, does anyone have any Eagle CAD
designs for basic cartridge boards which I can use as a basis for my
designs?

Second, once I have something, could anyone provide a recommendation for a
company that can make small orders of boards in western Europe from
submitted eagle files?

Cheers,

Rob


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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

MindFlareRetro
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Jim Brain
Hi Jim,

I realize this is an old post, but I was wondering if you would still share your EAGLE files for C64 cartridge PCBs?  I am hoping to work on some DIY C64 cart projects and would like to send out for my own PCBs.  I look forward to hearing back from you.

Thanks!
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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

André Fachat
Not sure what you exactly need, but here's the eagle file for another C64
cartridge port PCB.

http://www.6502.org/users/andre/cbmhw/c64csa/index.html

Cheers
André


Am 7. Dezember 2016 19:50:20 schrieb MindFlareRetro <[hidden email]>:

> Hi Jim,
>
> I realize this is an old post, but I was wondering if you would still share
> your EAGLE files for C64 cartridge PCBs?  I am hoping to work on some DIY
> C64 cart projects and would like to send out for my own PCBs.  I look
> forward to hearing back from you.
>
> Regards,
> Mark
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://cbm-hackers.2304266.n4.nabble.com/Eagle-CAD-design-and-fabrication-of-C64-Plus4-cartridges-tp4656273p4662024.html
> Sent from the cbm-hackers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>        Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list



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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

MindFlareRetro
This post was updated on .
Hi André,

Thanks for your response. I am looking for the type that Jim Brain mentions in his Feb. 11, 2013 (10:25) post:

I have a pretty good template for EAGLE for C64 cartridges, one that will fit in both types of cartridge case available today, as well as original CBM cases.
EAGLE will create GERBER files (I have a tweaked job file that will create all the required files, including the drill file and a file showing board edges for EAGLE) and then you can send those anywhere.


I am looking for those original C64 cartridge PCBs that I can add an EPROM/EEPROM to and will fit in a standard C64 cartridge case.

Are you aware of those traditional ones? Thanks.

Regards,
Mark
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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

Jim Brain
On 12/7/2016 2:57 PM, MindFlareRetro wrote:
Hi André, Thanks for your response. I am looking for the type that Jim Brain mentions in his Feb. 11, 2013 (10:25) post: I have a pretty good template for EAGLE for C64 cartridges, one that will fit in both types of cartridge case available today, as well as original CBM cases. EAGLE will create GERBER files (I have a tweaked job file that will create all the required files, including the drill file and a file showing board edges for EAGLE) and then you can send those anywhere. I am looking for those original C64 cartridge PCBs that I can add an EPROM/EEPROM to and will fit in a standard C64 cartridge case. Are you aware of those traditional ones? Thanks. Regards, Mark

View this message in context: Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges
Sent from the cbm-hackers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

:-)


I am here, and I have the files.


However, they were truly template files, no 2764 socket for an EPROM.


That said, I am happy to quickly modify the files to include a ROM socket and post the results to the web site.


Let me know what size EPROM you are looking to use.

-- 
Jim Brain
[hidden email] 
www.jbrain.com
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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

MindFlareRetro
Hi Jim,

Well, for my initial foray into making my own cartridges from scratch I wanted to make a single C64 diagnostic cartridge and perhaps a dead test cartridge, so I believe a standard 2764 socket would do the trick.

Thanks for your help.

Regards,
Mark
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Re: Eagle CAD design and fabrication of C64 & Plus4 cartridges

Jim Brain
On 12/7/2016 9:40 PM, MindFlareRetro wrote:
Hi Jim,

Well, for my initial foray into making my own cartridges from scratch I
wanted to make a single C64 diagnostic cartridge and perhaps a dead test
cartridge, so I believe a standard 2764 socket would do the trick.

Thanks for your help.
No problem.  Put the design up on OSHPark for everyone to enjoy.

A few questions, though:

  • No need to support > 8kB?
  • Do you want the PCB to fill the entire case?  At present, the PCB need only be large enough to hit the center screw of the case.


I believe I need to put some resistors on some of the unused EPROM pins, but it is otherwise done (8kB option)


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