Drive speedtest PRG

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
23 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Drive speedtest PRG

silverdr@wfmh.org.pl
Once more - I remember seeing once a nice PRG (for the 64), which timed all main functions of a connected drive. AFIR those were loading/saving/verifying, SEQ reading/writing, REL reading/writing, validating, formatting, ... don't remember the list exactly but I recall that it had basically "everything" worth measuring. I /think/ it was published by one of the German magazines (INPUT?, 64er?, Magic Disk?).

Could anyone point me to it?

--
SD! - http://e4aws.silverdr.com/


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Drive speedtest PRG

Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud)
Hallo Patryk en de rest,


> I /think/ it was published by one of the German magazines (INPUT?, 64er?, Magic Disk?).

FYI: I have all 64ers up to 1993 (?) in PDF, about 12 GB. I also have all the disks in D64 on a CD. I scanned these 64ers myself so I know they are complete. I have PDFs of INPUT? as well, some are mine, some from others, but not complete. I'm not sure about the D64s for them.

If interested, PM me.


Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards, Ruud Baltissen

www.Baltissen.org



De informatie in dit e-mailbericht is vertrouwelijk en uitsluitend bestemd voor de
geadresseerde. Wanneer u dit bericht per abuis ontvangt, verzoeken wij u contact op te
nemen met de afzender per kerende e-mail. Verder verzoeken wij u in dat geval dit
e-mailbericht te vernietigen en de inhoud ervan aan niemand openbaar te maken.
Wij aanvaarden geen aansprakelijkheid voor onjuiste, onvolledige dan wel ontijdige
overbrenging van de inhoud van een verzonden e-mailbericht, noch voor daarbij
overgebrachte virussen.

APG Groep N.V. is gevestigd te Heerlen en is ingeschreven in het
handelsregister van de Kamer van Koophandel Limburg onder nummer 14099617


The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be privileged.
It may be read, copied and used only by the intended recipient.
If you have received it in error, please contact the sender immediately by
return e-mail; please delete in this case the e-mail and do not disclose its
contents to any person. We don't accept liability for any errors, omissions,
delays of receipt or viruses in the contents of this message which arise as a
result of e-mail transmission.

APG Groep N.V. is registered in the trade register of the Chamber
of Commerce Limburg, The Netherlands, registration number: 14099617


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Drive speedtest PRG

Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud)
PM me at    ruud  ....  baltissen.org , please!



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud) [mailto:[hidden email]]
Verzonden: vrijdag 4 mei 2018 13:22
Aan: '[hidden email]'
Onderwerp: RE: Drive speedtest PRG

Hallo Patryk en de rest,


> I /think/ it was published by one of the German magazines (INPUT?, 64er?, Magic Disk?).

FYI: I have all 64ers up to 1993 (?) in PDF, about 12 GB. I also have all the disks in D64 on a CD. I scanned these 64ers myself so I know they are complete. I have PDFs of INPUT? as well, some are mine, some from others, but not complete. I'm not sure about the D64s for them.

If interested, PM me.


Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards, Ruud Baltissen

www.Baltissen.org


De informatie in dit e-mailbericht is vertrouwelijk en uitsluitend bestemd voor de
geadresseerde. Wanneer u dit bericht per abuis ontvangt, verzoeken wij u contact op te
nemen met de afzender per kerende e-mail. Verder verzoeken wij u in dat geval dit
e-mailbericht te vernietigen en de inhoud ervan aan niemand openbaar te maken.
Wij aanvaarden geen aansprakelijkheid voor onjuiste, onvolledige dan wel ontijdige
overbrenging van de inhoud van een verzonden e-mailbericht, noch voor daarbij
overgebrachte virussen.

APG Groep N.V. is gevestigd te Heerlen en is ingeschreven in het
handelsregister van de Kamer van Koophandel Limburg onder nummer 14099617


The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be privileged.
It may be read, copied and used only by the intended recipient.
If you have received it in error, please contact the sender immediately by
return e-mail; please delete in this case the e-mail and do not disclose its
contents to any person. We don't accept liability for any errors, omissions,
delays of receipt or viruses in the contents of this message which arise as a
result of e-mail transmission.

APG Groep N.V. is registered in the trade register of the Chamber
of Commerce Limburg, The Netherlands, registration number: 14099617


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

silverdr@wfmh.org.pl
In reply to this post by Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud)

> On 2018-05-04, at 13:22, Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hallo Patryk en de rest,
>
>
>> I /think/ it was published by one of the German magazines (INPUT?, 64er?, Magic Disk?).
>
> FYI: I have all 64ers up to 1993 (?) in PDF, about 12 GB. I also have all the disks in D64 on a CD. I scanned these 64ers myself so I know they are complete. I have PDFs of INPUT? as well, some are mine, some from others, but not complete. I'm not sure about the D64s for them.
>
> If interested, PM me.

I think I eventually found the PRG here:

https://www.forum64.de/index.php?thread/20779-speedtestprojekt-für-jedes-c64-laufwerk-bitte-mitmachen/

linked to one of the posts. My guess (from the filename ;-) is that it was published by 64'er for May 1988.

--
SD! - http://e4aws.silverdr.com/


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

Bill Degnan
In reply to this post by Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud)
I don't remember why, but I have a mirror of some of Baltissen's files here:

I assume you can't use American drive speed programs, do to the difference in the frequency, but perhaps you can just to track RPMs.   You can try this disk, written (IIRC) by a guy local to me in the Philadelphia area:
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

silverdr@wfmh.org.pl

> On 2018-05-04, at 14:36, Bill Degnan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I don't remember why, but I have a mirror of some of Baltissen's files here:
> http://vintagecomputer.net/commodore/64/baltissen/Pbe.zip
>
> I assume you can't use American drive speed programs, do to the difference in the frequency, but perhaps you can just to track RPMs.   You can try this disk, written (IIRC) by a guy local to me in the Philadelphia area:
> http://vintagecomputer.net/commodore/64/d64_library/utilities/64-doctor.d64

I found the PRG already but I'll have a look there too. I believe the (at least the 64'er one) PRG uses TOD to measure time. At least that's what was doing with my D64 imager. If that's the case then it's simply a matter of proper initialisation of the CIA and suddenly the PRGs work on both sides of the water ;-)

--
SD! - http://e4aws.silverdr.com/


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

MiaM
In reply to this post by Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud)
Den Fri, 4 May 2018 11:22:04 +0000 skrev "Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud)"
<[hidden email]>:

> Hallo Patryk en de rest,
>
>
> > I /think/ it was published by one of the German magazines (INPUT?,
> > 64er?, Magic Disk?).
>
> FYI: I have all 64ers up to 1993 (?) in PDF, about 12 GB. I also have
> all the disks in D64 on a CD. I scanned these 64ers myself so I know
> they are complete. I have PDFs of INPUT? as well, some are mine, some
> from others, but not complete. I'm not sure about the D64s for them.

If it's legally possible, it would be really nice if this ended up on
archive.org.

Btw are there any scans of the german magazine MC (MicroComputer)? I
have a few physical magazines from around 85 and from around 90.

My impression is that the rest of the world could envy the (west)
germans as both 64er and MC actually had a bunch of DIY hardware
projects which were far more advanced than the typical reset button or
autofire circuit that you could find in most magazines.

Well known is the IEEE 488 conversion of a 1541 that 64er did, but they
also did other stuff like 40k ram expansion for the 1541 with hardware
to via software switch in ram in the rom space, to run/develop different
roms. Also they did an IEEE 488 interface for C64 and C128 which as I
understand works in all three modes of an C128. They used the Intel
8255 which is still easy to find. No hard-to-find 6525 triport or
semi-expensive 6526 or 6522's.

MC seems to not being focused on Commodore, but on computers in
general. They made their own complete small computers, and they also
did some cool and strange hardware like for example an 68008 add-on
board for Apple II.

Also something we can envy the germans for is the NDR computer. The
northern regional public radio-tv made a DIY computer and apparently
televised building instructions.


--
(\_/) Copy the bunny to your mails to help
(O.o) him achieve world domination.
(> <) Come join the dark side.
/_|_\ We have cookies.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Drive speedtest PRG

Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud)
Hallo Mia,


> ... like for example an 68008 add-on board for Apple II.

Years ago I salvaged a 68008 to use it for such a project but I never came to it to do it because of other nice ongoing projects. Do you have this particular magazine (or somebody else) and, if so, would you be so kind to scan the article, please? Would save me inventing the wheel twice.
Thank you!


Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards, Ruud Baltissen

www.Baltissen.org



De informatie in dit e-mailbericht is vertrouwelijk en uitsluitend bestemd voor de
geadresseerde. Wanneer u dit bericht per abuis ontvangt, verzoeken wij u contact op te
nemen met de afzender per kerende e-mail. Verder verzoeken wij u in dat geval dit
e-mailbericht te vernietigen en de inhoud ervan aan niemand openbaar te maken.
Wij aanvaarden geen aansprakelijkheid voor onjuiste, onvolledige dan wel ontijdige
overbrenging van de inhoud van een verzonden e-mailbericht, noch voor daarbij
overgebrachte virussen.

APG Groep N.V. is gevestigd te Heerlen en is ingeschreven in het
handelsregister van de Kamer van Koophandel Limburg onder nummer 14099617


The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be privileged.
It may be read, copied and used only by the intended recipient.
If you have received it in error, please contact the sender immediately by
return e-mail; please delete in this case the e-mail and do not disclose its
contents to any person. We don't accept liability for any errors, omissions,
delays of receipt or viruses in the contents of this message which arise as a
result of e-mail transmission.

APG Groep N.V. is registered in the trade register of the Chamber
of Commerce Limburg, The Netherlands, registration number: 14099617


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

Ethan Dicks
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 2:33 AM, Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud)
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> ... like for example an 68008 add-on board for Apple II.
>
> Years ago I salvaged a 68008 to use it for such a project but I never came to it to do it because of other nice ongoing projects. Do you have this particular magazine (or somebody else) and, if so, would you be so kind to scan the article, please? Would save me inventing the wheel twice.
> Thank you!

I would also be interested in reading about this 68008 project.  I
co-designed a 68008 project for work 25 years ago that never got past
the first run of prototypes (I did the architecture and the firmware
and our hardware designer did the schematic capture and PCB routing).
It's a fun little chip if your memory requirements are modest.

I may never build one, but I would find the article fascinating.

-ethan

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

Michał Pleban
Hello!

Ethan Dicks wrote:

> I would also be interested in reading about this 68008 project.  I
> co-designed a 68008 project for work 25 years ago that never got past
> the first run of prototypes (I did the architecture and the firmware
> and our hardware designer did the schematic capture and PCB routing).
> It's a fun little chip if your memory requirements are modest.
>
> I may never build one, but I would find the article fascinating.

It might also be theoretically possible to build a 68008 card for the
CBM-II, in place of the 8088 card.

Regards,
Michau.


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

MiaM
Den Fri, 11 May 2018 11:23:27 +0200 skrev Michał Pleban
<[hidden email]>:

> Ethan Dicks wrote:
>
> > I would also be interested in reading about this 68008 project.  I
> > co-designed a 68008 project for work 25 years ago that never got
> > past the first run of prototypes (I did the architecture and the
> > firmware and our hardware designer did the schematic capture and
> > PCB routing). It's a fun little chip if your memory requirements
> > are modest.
> >
> > I may never build one, but I would find the article fascinating.

If you remind me periodically I'll scan it for you all.

> It might also be theoretically possible to build a 68008 card for the
> CBM-II, in place of the 8088 card.

How about a deluxe feature creep+++ card with 8088, 68008, 6809 and
Z80? ;)

--
(\_/) Copy the bunny to your mails to help
(O.o) him achieve world domination.
(> <) Come join the dark side.
/_|_\ We have cookies.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

Michał Pleban
Hello!

Mia Magnusson wrote:

> How about a deluxe feature creep+++ card with 8088, 68008, 6809 and
> Z80? ;)

If you are able to fit it inside the case (where it's already very
crowded after installing the internal drives and I have very ittle place
to put the memory expansion into), be my guest :P

Regards,
Michau.



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

MiaM
Den Fri, 11 May 2018 16:41:49 +0200 skrev Michał Pleban
<[hidden email]>:

> Hello!
>
> Mia Magnusson wrote:
>
> > How about a deluxe feature creep+++ card with 8088, 68008, 6809 and
> > Z80? ;)
>
> If you are able to fit it inside the case (where it's already very
> crowded after installing the internal drives and I have very ittle
> place to put the memory expansion into), be my guest :P

Well, how about actually building the directly-to-CPU-floppy-interface
that the memory maps hints at? That would perhaps lessen the crowd a
bit? :)

--
(\_/) Copy the bunny to your mails to help
(O.o) him achieve world domination.
(> <) Come join the dark side.
/_|_\ We have cookies.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

Ethan Dicks
In reply to this post by Michał Pleban
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 5:23 AM, Michał Pleban <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Ethan Dicks wrote:
>> I would also be interested in reading about this 68008 project.
>
> It might also be theoretically possible to build a 68008 card for the
> CBM-II, in place of the 8088 card.

While I do think the M68K family is awesome, what could one do with a
68008 in a CBM-II?  I would think it would take porting some existing
ecosystem over to it (filesystem, assembler, probably C compiler,
maybe a version of BASIC, utilities, etc).  And then, there would
still have to be some effort to port any applications over or write
them from scratch.

It sounds theoretically cool, but what would it do?  What would be the
reason to put in that much effort?  What could it do that would give
it some "wow"?

-ethan

smf
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

smf
In reply to this post by MiaM

On 11/05/2018 13:25, Mia Magnusson wrote:
> How about a deluxe feature creep+++ card with 8088, 68008, 6809 and
> Z80? ;)
How about an FPGA, in fact how about putting the whole thing in it?

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

MiaM
In reply to this post by Ethan Dicks
Den Fri, 11 May 2018 14:44:37 -0400 skrev Ethan Dicks
<[hidden email]>:

> On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 5:23 AM, Michał Pleban <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hello!
> >
> > Ethan Dicks wrote:
> >> I would also be interested in reading about this 68008 project.
> >
> > It might also be theoretically possible to build a 68008 card for
> > the CBM-II, in place of the 8088 card.
>
> While I do think the M68K family is awesome, what could one do with a
> 68008 in a CBM-II?  I would think it would take porting some existing
> ecosystem over to it (filesystem, assembler, probably C compiler,
> maybe a version of BASIC, utilities, etc).  And then, there would
> still have to be some effort to port any applications over or write
> them from scratch.
>
> It sounds theoretically cool, but what would it do?  What would be the
> reason to put in that much effort?  What could it do that would give
> it some "wow"?

You ask a really good question. There aren't that much general 68k
software that runs on anything else than specific hardware (Amiga,
Atari ST, Apple Macintosh). The only software I know of is CP/M 68k
with afaik very few programs, OS/9 which should have at least some
software, and the stuff Motorola made them self (VersaDOS and whatever
else it might have been). CP/M is freeware / open source in some way
nowdays and that seems to include CP/M 68k. OS-9 is used in the CD-i
devices which seems to be still supported and commercial interests
cling on to it even though it's an outdated standard, so it might be
hard to do anything useful without either paying some heavy fees or
kind of actively support piracy. I'm not sure about the state of the
Motorola stuff. They, or whoever owns their semiconductor business now
(NXP?), seems unlikely to enforce any rules regarding the software.

If the computer had some kind of bitmapped display hardware that could
be programmed in a way at least slightly compatible with Amiga, Atari
or Mac, it would be far more interesting.

Btw there were Unix-like operating systems for 68k computers too. Here
in Sweden our then big (by local measurements) home electonics
manufacturer Luxor made computers, and were the dominant players in
small business usage before PC took over, but that was with their Z80
based computers ABC 80 and ABC 800. But they made a 68k based computer
called ABC 1600 running "ABCnix". Their DIAB partner who did lots of the
developemend also made 68k Unix computers, but more server like stuff.
They had an annoying licence model where you had to pay extra for the
simple TCP/IP commands, so they usually didn't have traceroute and
similar ;)

But I guess that those unix-like operating systems needs a MMU.

So a 68008 wouldn't be that useful. On the other hand, you could argue
that everything we discuss on this list isn't that useful either, from
a utilitarian perspective ;)


--
(\_/) Copy the bunny to your mails to help
(O.o) him achieve world domination.
(> <) Come join the dark side.
/_|_\ We have cookies.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

Ethan Dicks
On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 12:51 PM, Mia Magnusson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Den Fri, 11 May 2018 14:44:37 -0400 skrev Ethan Dicks
> <[hidden email]>:
>> While I do think the M68K family is awesome, what could one do with a
>> 68008 in a CBM-II?
>>
>> It sounds theoretically cool, but what would it do?  What would be the
>> reason to put in that much effort?  What could it do that would give
>> it some "wow"?
>
> You ask a really good question. There aren't that much general 68k
> software that runs on anything else than specific hardware (Amiga,
> Atari ST, Apple Macintosh).

Right... the richest software ecosystems for the M68K require specific
video implementations at least (each of those platforms is non-generic
in specific ways).

> The only software I know of is CP/M 68k
> with afaik very few programs, OS/9 which should have at least some
> software

Those are good starting points.  I don't know how much stuff is out
there for CP/M 68k but there is definitely _something_ (i.e., not
starting from scratch).

> If the computer had some kind of bitmapped display hardware that could
> be programmed in a way at least slightly compatible with Amiga, Atari
> or Mac, it would be far more interesting.

The Mac has a very dumb video implementation, but the application side
requires the routines in the ROM Toolbox.

One thing to remember is that the 68008 has a smaller address bus than
the full 68000.  20 bits for the DIP verstion, 22 bits for the PLCC.
This matters when trying to emulate a memory map that expects 24
physical bits of address space.  One needs a little space for ROM and
for I/O carved out of the memory map, so 1MB of RAM is trivial to set
aside, 2MB isn't any harder.  3MB is a bit odd (no pun intended) but
barely any harder (if one uses GALs or CPLDs for implementing the
memory division).  There are other slightly more complex arrangements
(ROM that can be switched out after boot, small I/O window on top of a
sea of nearly 4MB of RAM, etc...) depending on how far one wants to
take things.  Minimum, I'd say, is quarter the map and do 1MB of RAM
space, 1MB of ROM space, 1MB of I/O space and ignore the remaining 1MB
space.  Viable but boring.

> Btw there were Unix-like operating systems for 68k computers too.
>
> But I guess that those unix-like operating systems needs a MMU.

There's one UNIX-like OS I know of off the top of my head that does
not require an MMU and that's Minix (I have the Minix disks for the
Amiga 500, but it would be a good starting point, after one replaces
the console interface from fiddling the Amiga custom chips back to a
serial line or an 80x25 character buffer (CBM-II video memory)).

> So a 68008 wouldn't be that useful. On the other hand, you could argue
> that everything we discuss on this list isn't that useful either, from
> a utilitarian perspective ;)

I entirely see the point with the recent project to get MS-DOS newer
than 1.25 running on the 8088 board.  It's taking an existing
functionality from back in the day and giving it a clear and useful
upgrade.  As for other widgets, we do discuss a lot of items that are
not exactly efficient or economically practical, I was kind of more
angling from the perspective of - OK... here's this new board.  With
no software it's an expensive lump.  It should do *something*.  One of
my personal goals is to run Zork on places that Zork has never run
before (I helped with the development of a Z-machine implementation
for the RCA CDP1802 a few years back).  Even to do that for this
theoretical board would take a bunch of groundwork - a cross assembler
at least.  (I've already gotten a Z-machine working on 40 and 80
column PETs as well as the VIC-20 (requires as much extra RAM as one
can stuff into it), but since I don't happen to own a CBM-II, I've not
gotten Zork running on one).

Picking a killer app or two would also advise the design process -
does it need graphics and sound or is a plain wall of characters and a
filesystem enough to justify the effort.

-ethan

smf
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

smf
On 13/05/2018 01:47, Ethan Dicks wrote:

> Right... the richest software ecosystems for the M68K require specific
> video implementations at least (each of those platforms is non-generic
> in specific ways).

With a lot of work you could get to the point where amiga command line
programs would run.

So you'd be able to run a compiler, extract lha files etc. It would be
more painful than using an A500.

I think an nec v20 or v30 is more interesting, you can run x86 or z80
versions of cpm.



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

Michał Pleban
Hello!

smf wrote:

> I think an nec v20 or v30 is more interesting, you can run x86 or z80
> versions of cpm.

You can place a V20 easily in the existing 8088 card.

Do I remember correctly though that it emulates only the 8080, not Z80?

Regards,
Michau.



smf
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Drive speedtest PRG

smf
On 13/05/2018 20:40, Michał Pleban wrote:
> Do I remember correctly though that it emulates only the 8080, not Z80?

You're correct. While most CPM machines used a Z80, most CPM
applications will run on an 8080. I always mix them up.



12