Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

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Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

vossi
Hi,
I just got a 8032SK with a Data Becker graphics extension board.
The Board plugs in the 6545 socket and has a flatcable to the char-rom-socket.
In the board plugs the 6545 and the char-rom.
Above the board plugs a second board with 16kB ram (8x6116).
In the 8032 is an eprom for this graphics-extension.

I read that it starts with sys36864 and say:
CBM-8000 hi-res graphics software data becker gmbh
Created 18.09.1981
by m.thielker
graphics ready

With 16kB and the 6545 it should display 640x200 monochrome graphics.
But how to use???

Has anybody informations, manual, schematics  for it?
please send to: vossi@ceffy.de

greets
Christian
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Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

Ruud
Hallo vossi,


> In the 8032 is an eprom for this graphics-extension.

If nobody has a manual, another thing that could be done is
disassembling the ROM. I would be interested in giving it a try.


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Kind regards / Met vriendelijke groet, Ruud Baltissen
www.Baltissen.org







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Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

Steve Gray
In reply to this post by vossi
Nice!  I am currently reverse-engineering the SuperSoft HR40/80 boards (8K ram). I know that SuperSoft also had a 16K version for the 8000. Perhaps the Data Becker is some derivative of the SuperSoft (or vice-versa). You can look here https://github.com/sjgray/SuperSoft-HR  to see if anything might be similar.IE: look to see if the command strings are similar. I could also help to disassemble the rom.

Steve



From: vossi <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 1:49 AM
Subject: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

Hi,
I just got a 8032SK with a Data Becker graphics extension board.
The Board plugs in the 6545 socket and has a flatcable to the
char-rom-socket.
In the board plugs the 6545 and the char-rom.
Above the board plugs a second board with 16kB ram (8x6116).
In the 8032 is an eprom for this graphics-extension.

I read that it starts with sys36864 and say:
CBM-8000 hi-res graphics software data becker gmbh
Created 18.09.1981
by m.thielker
graphics ready

With 16kB and the 6545 it should display 640x200 monochrome graphics.
But how to use???

Has anybody informations, manual, schematics  for it?
please send to: [hidden email]

greets
Christian



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Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

vossi
This post was updated on .
Hi Ruud and Steve,
it doesn't look like the supersoft board.
It's only the 6545 with some ttl's to access bitmap graphics instead of the prebuild chars and the 16kb ram board.
I read the eprom and disassembled it short in the monitor.
It runs at $9000 and has several jumps for a lot of graphics subroutines in the first bytes.
I think at $9000 is the init routine.

Here are pics:
http://www.ceffy.de/cbm8000-grafik_001.jpg
http://www.ceffy.de/cbm8000-grafik_002.jpg

And the rom-extension: http://www.ceffy.de/cbm8000.bin

EDIT:
Now I fixed the machine and made some first tests:

SYS 36864 starts graphics mode (but text is overlayed?):
http://www.ceffy.de/cbm8000-grafik_003.jpg

SYS 36870 clears the graphics-ram:
http://www.ceffy.de/cbm8000-grafik_004.jpg
EDIT-END

@Ruud: Please send me the disassembly to vossi@ceffy.de

Has anybody a 6502 disassembler for OSX ?
I tried DiStella - it works - but it's VCS2600 specific....

greets
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Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

AndyG
In reply to this post by Steve Gray
Hi Steve, I have taken a quick look at the code and its a lot more complex than the Supersoft board we have been messing with.....

Andy



Steve Gray wrote
Nice!  I am currently reverse-engineering the SuperSoft HR40/80 boards (8K ram). I know that SuperSoft also had a 16K version for the 8000. Perhaps the Data Becker is some derivative of the SuperSoft (or vice-versa). You can look here https://github.com/sjgray/SuperSoft-HR  to see if anything might be similar.IE: look to see if the command strings are similar. I could also help to disassemble the rom.
Steve

      From: vossi <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email] 
 Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 1:49 AM
 Subject: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics
   
Hi,
I just got a 8032SK with a Data Becker graphics extension board.
The Board plugs in the 6545 socket and has a flatcable to the
char-rom-socket.
In the board plugs the 6545 and the char-rom.
Above the board plugs a second board with 16kB ram (8x6116).
In the 8032 is an eprom for this graphics-extension.

I read that it starts with sys36864 and say:
CBM-8000 hi-res graphics software data becker gmbh
Created 18.09.1981
by m.thielker
graphics ready

With 16kB and the 6545 it should display 640x200 monochrome graphics.
But how to use???

Has anybody informations, manual, schematics  for it?
please send to: [hidden email]

greets
Christian



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Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

Steve Gray
In reply to this post by vossi
Preliminary look at the ROM. At the start there is a giant jump table, so it looks like all the commands will be via SYS.
so:

SYS to $9000, $9003, $9006 etc to see what happens. If you get syntax errors then you know there must be additional parameters IE: SYS $9000,X,Y etc

An interesting board for sure.

Steve



From: vossi <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

Hi Ruud and Steve,
it doesn't look like the supersoft board.
It's only the 6545 with some ttl's to access bitmap graphics instead of the
prebuild chars and the 16kb ram board.
I read the eprom and disassembled it short in the monitor.
It runs at $9000 and has several jumps for a lot of graphics subroutines in
the first bytes.
I think at $9000 is the init routine.

Here are pics:
http://www.ceffy.de/cbm8000-grafik_001.jpg
http://www.ceffy.de/cbm8000-grafik_002.jpg

And the rom-extension: http://www.ceffy.de/cbm8000.bin

@Ruud: Please send me the disassembly to [hidden email]

Has anybody a 6502 disassembler for OSX ?
I tried DiStella - it works - but it's VCS2600 specific....

greets




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Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

vossi
In reply to this post by vossi
first tries:

$9000 graphics on (shrinks screen vertical to eliminate spaces between char-lines)
$9003 graphics off
$9006 clear screen
$9009 non invert screen
$900c invert screen
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Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

AndyG
Christian,

Things to explore, If you look at what's in the Supersoft command set, there must also be routines in the jump table that replicate the draw a line, set a point, erase a point and erase a line...etc. With a coordinate system. Either 0,0 is top left or bottom left....

There may also be a move to x,y command....

These types of commands are similar to those found in other 8 bit machines ... of the time.

Andy

On 28 Aug 2017, at 18:06, vossi [via cbm-hackers] <[hidden email]> wrote:

first tries:

$9000 graphics on (shrinks screen vertical to eliminate spaces between char-lines)
$9003 graphics off
$9006 clear screen
$9009 non invert screen
$900c invert screen


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RE: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

Raj Wurttemberg
In reply to this post by vossi
Is this the board you guys are looking at?

http://www.6502.org/users/sjgray/computer/hsg/index.html

Thanks,
/Raj


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of vossi
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 1:50 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

Hi,
I just got a 8032SK with a Data Becker graphics extension board.
The Board plugs in the 6545 socket and has a flatcable to the
char-rom-socket.
In the board plugs the 6545 and the char-rom.
Above the board plugs a second board with 16kB ram (8x6116).
In the 8032 is an eprom for this graphics-extension.

I read that it starts with sys36864 and say:
CBM-8000 hi-res graphics software data becker gmbh Created 18.09.1981 by
m.thielker graphics ready

With 16kB and the 6545 it should display 640x200 monochrome graphics.
But how to use???

Has anybody informations, manual, schematics  for it?
please send to: [hidden email]

greets
Christian



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s-tp4663482.html
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Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

Steve Gray
No, the HSG (High Speed Graphik) is a Commodore Germany made board using a special Thomson GPU chip. It has 32K of dedicated RAM and supports plotting,  line drawing, and text scaling in hardware. It has a ROM that adds graphics keywords to BASIC. The PET video is fed into this board but only as a switcher between graphics or text. It cannot overlay the two. It also has a separate graphics output connector.

 Commodore also had a special board for 8296 machines called the "HRE" (Hi-Res Emulator) that used the same commands as the HRG but did all the drawing via software. 

The SuperSoft board that I'm reversing has 8K Graphics RAM at $9000-AFFF and ROM code that resides in the upper editor rom space with commands via SYS hr,{command,parameters..}. The Supersoft connects to the CRTC chip with a ribbon cable and mounts on the character ROM and Editor ROM sockets. The Character ROM socket is used for mixing PET and graphics on one screen.

The Data Becker board is interesting as ROM appears in the $9000-9FFF area. So where is the graphics RAM? Perhaps it's bank-switched into the $A000-AFFF area? Or, the 6545 CRTC does have the ability to access dedicated video ram that is not accessable to the CPU. Perhaps it does something like that?

Steve



From: Raj Wurttemberg <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 2:12 PM
Subject: RE: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

Is this the board you guys are looking at?

http://www.6502.org/users/sjgray/computer/hsg/index.html

Thanks,
/Raj


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of vossi
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 1:50 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

Hi,
I just got a 8032SK with a Data Becker graphics extension board.
The Board plugs in the 6545 socket and has a flatcable to the
char-rom-socket.
In the board plugs the 6545 and the char-rom.
Above the board plugs a second board with 16kB ram (8x6116).
In the 8032 is an eprom for this graphics-extension.

I read that it starts with sys36864 and say:
CBM-8000 hi-res graphics software data becker gmbh Created 18.09.1981 by
m.thielker graphics ready

With 16kB and the 6545 it should display 640x200 monochrome graphics.
But how to use???

Has anybody informations, manual, schematics  for it?
please send to: [hidden email]

greets
Christian



--
View this message in context:
http://cbm-hackers.2304266.n4.nabble.com/Data-Becker-CBM-8000-hi-res-graphic
s-tp4663482.html
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Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

AndyG
In reply to this post by Steve Gray
Steve

Another very brief look in the code there appears to be a lookup table from 9CC6 which if convert to ASCII refers to some of the special drawing characters (lines/corners etc) - the table gets analysed from code that starts from around L_991A:
onwards which is looking at a Keypress for some reason

B6 B4  B8  B2 B9 B7 B1 B3  B5 B0 AE AD etc.

Any ideas as wonder what the purpose/application this board was designed for ?

Andy



On 28 Aug 2017, at 17:34, Steve Gray <[hidden email]> wrote:

Preliminary look at the ROM. At the start there is a giant jump table, so it looks like all the commands will be via SYS.
so:

SYS to $9000, $9003, $9006 etc to see what happens. If you get syntax errors then you know there must be additional parameters IE: SYS $9000,X,Y etc

An interesting board for sure.

Steve



From: vossi <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

Hi Ruud and Steve,
it doesn't look like the supersoft board.
It's only the 6545 with some ttl's to access bitmap graphics instead of the
prebuild chars and the 16kb ram board.
I read the eprom and disassembled it short in the monitor.
It runs at $9000 and has several jumps for a lot of graphics subroutines in
the first bytes.
I think at $9000 is the init routine.

Here are pics:
http://www.ceffy.de/cbm8000-grafik_001.jpg
http://www.ceffy.de/cbm8000-grafik_002.jpg

And the rom-extension: http://www.ceffy.de/cbm8000.bin

@Ruud: Please send me the disassembly to [hidden email]

Has anybody a 6502 disassembler for OSX ?
I tried DiStella - it works - but it's VCS2600 specific....

greets




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Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

David Holz-2
In reply to this post by vossi
On 08/28/2017 07:16 AM, vossi wrote:
> Has anybody a 6502 disassembler for OSX ?
> I tried DiStella - it works - but it's VCS2600 specific....

My interactive disassembler at http://www.white-flame.com/wfdis/ runs as
local javascript, which should be compatible for pretty much anywhere
that can run a modern browser.  While it's still in development, I have
been able to get various other features in quite quickly on request.
Unfortunately there's still no .asm export yet, but you can save the
workspace like IDA.  (and unlike IDA, there's actually a working
undo/redo. ;-) )

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Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

Steve Gray
In reply to this post by vossi
Looking at the disassembly there appears to be additional "registers" at $E882, E888, and E88A which corresponds to the CRTC IO area $E880-E88F. Normally there are only two CRTC registers ($E880 and $E881) and those are mirrored in the $E88x range. There may be decoding on the board that negates the mirroring and decodes these additional registers.
I have looked through a couple times and I can not see any writing to any normal memory area, so I'm thinking the graphics ram must be accessed through these "registers" somehow.
I do not see any writes to $E800 or $E801 (The CRTC register select and data ports) so it doesn't appear to be using the CRTC to access memory.

Steve



From: vossi <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

first tries:

$9000 graphics on (shrinks screen vertical to eliminate spaces between
char-lines)
$9003 graphics off
$9006 clear screen
$9009 non invert screen
$900c invert screen



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Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

vossi
Here in the clear screen subroutine you can see how the graphics ram access works through these three extra decodeed registers:

CMD03:        * clear graphics screen *
910B: A9 00     LDA #$00          * 00 = graphics value to store *                  
910D: A2 07     LDX #$07        * graphics ram address pointers init - starts at 0008 *                          
910F: A0 00     LDY #$00                          
9111: 8C 88 E8  STY $E888 * E888 = hi byte of address in graphics ram *
;
L_9114:
9114: E8        INX        * increase lo byte of address pointer *                                  
9115: D0 04     BNE L_911B                        
9117: C8        INY                              
9118: 8C 88 E8  STY $E888 * increase hi byte of address pointer *                        
;
L_911B:
911B: 8E 82 E8  STX $E882 * E882 = lo byte of address in graphics ram *                        
911E: 8D 8A E8  STA $E88A * E88A = value to store *                        
9121: E0 8F     CPX #$8F                          
9123: D0 EF     BNE L_9114                        
9125: C0 3E     CPY #$3E        * graphics ram ends at 3E8E *                          
9127: D0 EB     BNE L_9114                        
9129: A9 80     LDA #$80        * store 80 in 3E8F (non inverted screen?)*                          
912B: 8D 88 E8  STA $E888                        
912E: 60        RTS  
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Re: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

AndyG
I wonder if this works a little like the DWW board where I found it  uses a register to give page access to 1k RAM blocks on the board. Unlike the Supersoft board which gives the user access to all 8k from $9000 to AFFF

Andy

Sent from my iPhone

On 29 Aug 2017, at 07:25, vossi [via cbm-hackers] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Here in the clear screen subroutine you can see how the graphics ram access works through these three extra decodeed registers:

CMD03:        * clear graphics screen *
910B: A9 00     LDA #$00          * 00 = graphics value to store *                  
910D: A2 07     LDX #$07        * graphics ram address pointers init - starts at 0008 *                          
910F: A0 00     LDY #$00                          
9111: 8C 88 E8  STY $E888 * E888 = hi byte of address in graphics ram *
;
L_9114:
9114: E8        INX        * increase lo byte of address pointer *                                  
9115: D0 04     BNE L_911B                        
9117: C8        INY                              
9118: 8C 88 E8  STY $E888 * increase hi byte of address pointer *                        
;
L_911B:
911B: 8E 82 E8  STX $E882 * E882 = lo byte of address in graphics ram *                        
911E: 8D 8A E8  STA $E88A * E88A = value to store *                        
9121: E0 8F     CPX #$8F                          
9123: D0 EF     BNE L_9114                        
9125: C0 3E     CPY #$3E        * graphics ram ends at 3E8E *                          
9127: D0 EB     BNE L_9114                        
9129: A9 80     LDA #$80        * store 80 in 3E8F (non inverted screen?)*                          
912B: 8D 88 E8  STA $E888                        
912E: 60        RTS  


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RE: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud)
In reply to this post by vossi
Hallo Vossi,


> @Ruud: Please send me the disassembly to [hidden email]

I can send you an uncommented one right away. But I thought I had the commented sources of the 8032 as well but it seems I was wrong. These are needed to know what routines this ROM is calling and what RAM addresses are used. So I started with creating a commented 8032 ROM first.  A commented DB-ROM therefore will take a bit longer than I thought, sorry.

Just to be sure:
The DB card has extra memory which is accessible using three registers:
- $E882 holds the LB of the address of a byte of this memory
- $E888 holds the HB of the address of a byte of this memory
- $E88A is used to write data into this extra memory


Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards, Ruud Baltissen

www.Baltissen.org



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RE: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

vossi
Hi Ruud,
the usage of the three registers seems to be like you wrote.
But the graphics memory starts at byte $0008.
I will reverse engeneer the PCB to find out more about the.
It seems that charachters overlay the graphics screen and bitmapgrapics only
appears at empty places in 8032 screen memory.
I did some poke's to write in the three DB graphics registers from basic and
there appearde some pixels on the screen.

The DB-Eprom-code looks like it's possible to access the screen routines
with basic variables  and sys-commands ???

PS: Have you a monitor with assembler/disassembler for $A000 - like the
newtim  from the 3032 ?

Christian



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RE: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud)
Hallo Christian,


> The DB-Eprom-code looks like it's possible to access the screen routines with basic variables  and sys-commands ???

.eq UtilIndex = $1F ; Utility Pointer Area
.eq StartBasVar = $2A ; Pointer: Start of BASIC Variables
.eq ChrgetPtr = $40 ; INPUT, READ and GET ptr to save CHRGET
.eq CurBasVarName = $42 ; Current BASIC Variable Name
.eq CurBasVarData = $44 ; Pointer: Current BASIC Variable Data
.eq ForNextPtr = $46 ; Pointer: Index Variable for FOR/NEXT
.eq IrqVector = $90
.eq StatusIO = $96 ; Kernal I/O Status Word: ST
.eq CurKeyPressed = $97 ; Current Key Pressed: 255 = No Key
.eq CharsInKeyBuf = $9E ; No. of Chars. in Keyboard Buffer
.eq LenCurFilName = $D1 ; Length of Current File Name
.eq CurLogFileNum = $D2 ; Current Logical File Number
.eq CurSecAddress = $D3 ; Current Secondary Address
.eq CurDevNum = $D4 ; Current Device Number
.eq KeyboardBuffer = $026F ; Keyboard Buffer

This is the list known variables accessed by the ROM. Another 74 bytes ranging from $032A to $03F8 are accessed directly as well.

The many JMP instructions at the beginning of the ROM are proof that this ROM is optimized to be used for SYS commands.


> PS: Have you a monitor with assembler/disassembler for $A000 - like the newtim  from the 3032 ?

Sorry, no.
 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards, Ruud Baltissen

www.Baltissen.org




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RE: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud)
Hallo Christian,


> The DB-Eprom-code looks like it's possible to access the screen routines with basic variables  and sys-commands ???

I completely forgot to mention this:

.eq P_BB24 = $BB24
.eq P_C92D = $C92D
.eq P_C99D = $C99D
.eq P_CB5E = $CB5E
.eq P_CCD8 = $CCD8
.eq P_CD0D = $CD0D
.eq P_CD61 = $CD61
.eq P_CD8E = $CD8E
.eq P_CD91 = $CD91
.eq P_CF83 = $CF83
.eq P_D534 = $D534
.eq P_E015 = $E015
.eq P_E018 = $E018
.eq P_E01B = $E01B
.eq P_F0D5 = $F0D5
.eq P_F143 = $F143
.eq P_F1D9 = $F1D9
.eq P_F2E0 = $F2E0
.eq P_F563 = $F563
.eq OpenChan4Outp = $FFC9
.eq CloseIoChannls = $FFCC
.eq GetCharInpDev = $FFE4

You see, enough procedures that have to be given a name yet. That's why the commented disassembly of the 8032 is needed first: knowing what these subroutines do will shed a lot of light on the DB ROM routines using these subroutines.


Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards, Ruud Baltissen

www.Baltissen.org




De informatie in dit e-mailbericht is vertrouwelijk en uitsluitend bestemd voor de
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RE: Data Becker CBM-8000 hi-res graphics

vossi
OK Ruud,
you do the commented disassembly and I do the reverse engeneering of the
hardware ;)
greets



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