Covox Voice Master

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
21 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Covox Voice Master

traymond
I did a little googling and found all 8-bit platforms supported
all I could find is thus device uses an 8-bit DAC.

Does DAC stand for:  Digital Audio Converter, which it seems this is a 
small IC?

Any ideas of possibly making such a device, circuit, all other needed components?

Terry Raymond
smf
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

smf
DAC is Digital to Analogue Convertor.

The output of an 8 bit DAC will be something like (vref * value) / 256.

You can build a dac out of resistors and amps or you can buy one.

The covox schematics are probably available on-line somewhere.

On 10/10/2016 19:01, Terry Raymond wrote:

> I did a little googling and found all 8-bit platforms supported
> all I could find is thus device uses an 8-bit DAC.
>
> Does DAC stand for:  Digital Audio Converter, which it seems this is a
> small IC?
>
> Any ideas of possibly making such a device, circuit, all other needed
> components?
>
> Terry Raymond


       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

Groepaz
There:

http://kb.gr8bit.ru/KB0010/covox-circuit-diagram-643x277.png

just put it on D0-D7 at the user port and you get a C64 covox. its a really
really simple device, which was kinda common in the early PC days as a poor
mans solution to digital sound output.


On Monday 10 October 2016, 20:42:19 smf <[hidden email]> wrote:

> DAC is Digital to Analogue Convertor.
>
> The output of an 8 bit DAC will be something like (vref * value) / 256.
>
> You can build a dac out of resistors and amps or you can buy one.
>
> The covox schematics are probably available on-line somewhere.
>
> On 10/10/2016 19:01, Terry Raymond wrote:
> > I did a little googling and found all 8-bit platforms supported
> > all I could find is thus device uses an 8-bit DAC.
> >
> > Does DAC stand for:  Digital Audio Converter, which it seems this is a
> > small IC?
> >
> > Any ideas of possibly making such a device, circuit, all other needed
> > components?
> >
> > Terry Raymond
>
>        Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list

--

http://www.hitmen-console.org    http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org        http://ar.pokefinder.org

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether *I* win or
lose.
<Darrin Weinberg>



       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

Zoran Davidovac
Hi There,

that is actually covox speech thing (poor man DAC), I remember this very
well since I made a few,
even simpler version with just 10 resistors :)

Covox Voice master is ADC and connects to joystick port so it would be 4
or 5 bit ADC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-BBxu3GIxE

I kind a belive that atari, apple and c64 are same devices:
http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple II Documentation
Project/Peripherals/Audio/Covox Voice Master/Photos/Covox Voice Master -
Box.jpg
http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php?title=File:Covox_Voice_Master.jpg
http://www.thepyro.com/blog/covox-voice-master/

http://apple2online.com/web_documents/covox_voice_master_users_manual.pdf

http://www.downloads.reactivemicro.com/Public/Apple II
Items/Documentation/Manuals/Voice Master/Covox Voice Harp Users Manual.pdf

PC versions was different so ISA coould be 8 bit ADC
http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.rs/2014/09/the-mysterious-covox-pc-sound-devices.html

Regards,

Zoran

On 10/10/2016 10:18 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> There:
>
> http://kb.gr8bit.ru/KB0010/covox-circuit-diagram-643x277.png
>
> just put it on D0-D7 at the user port and you get a C64 covox. its a really
> really simple device, which was kinda common in the early PC days as a poor
> mans solution to digital sound output.
>
>
> On Monday 10 October 2016, 20:42:19 smf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> DAC is Digital to Analogue Convertor.
>>
>> The output of an 8 bit DAC will be something like (vref * value) / 256.
>>
>> You can build a dac out of resistors and amps or you can buy one.
>>
>> The covox schematics are probably available on-line somewhere.
>>
>> On 10/10/2016 19:01, Terry Raymond wrote:
>>> I did a little googling and found all 8-bit platforms supported
>>> all I could find is thus device uses an 8-bit DAC.
>>>
>>> Does DAC stand for:  Digital Audio Converter, which it seems this is a
>>> small IC?
>>>
>>> Any ideas of possibly making such a device, circuit, all other needed
>>> components?
>>>
>>> Terry Raymond
>>         Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list



       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

traymond
Im very new to Electronics so I would need the circuit for the 5 bit ADC.

Im wondering if most Ekectronic component stores still have the ADC.

Well i will look gotta run.

Terry Raymond

On Monday, October 10, 2016, Zoran Davidovac <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi There,

that is actually covox speech thing (poor man DAC), I remember this very well since I made a few,
even simpler version with just 10 resistors :)

Covox Voice master is ADC and connects to joystick port so it would be 4 or 5 bit ADC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-BBxu3GIxE

I kind a belive that atari, apple and c64 are same devices:
http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple II Documentation Project/Peripherals/Audio/Covox Voice Master/Photos/Covox Voice Master - Box.jpg
http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php?title=File:Covox_Voice_Master.jpg
http://www.thepyro.com/blog/covox-voice-master/

http://apple2online.com/web_documents/covox_voice_master_users_manual.pdf

http://www.downloads.reactivemicro.com/Public/Apple II Items/Documentation/Manuals/Voice Master/Covox Voice Harp Users Manual.pdf

PC versions was different so ISA coould be 8 bit ADC
http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.rs/2014/09/the-mysterious-covox-pc-sound-devices.html

Regards,

Zoran

On 10/10/2016 10:18 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
There:

http://kb.gr8bit.ru/KB0010/covox-circuit-diagram-643x277.png

just put it on D0-D7 at the user port and you get a C64 covox. its a really
really simple device, which was kinda common in the early PC days as a poor
mans solution to digital sound output.


On Monday 10 October 2016, 20:42:19 smf <[hidden email]> wrote:
DAC is Digital to Analogue Convertor.

The output of an 8 bit DAC will be something like (vref * value) / 256.

You can build a dac out of resistors and amps or you can buy one.

The covox schematics are probably available on-line somewhere.

On 10/10/2016 19:01, Terry Raymond wrote:
I did a little googling and found all 8-bit platforms supported
all I could find is thus device uses an 8-bit DAC.

Does DAC stand for:  Digital Audio Converter, which it seems this is a
small IC?

Any ideas of possibly making such a device, circuit, all other needed
components?

Terry Raymond
        Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list



      Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
smf
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

smf
Unless you can find schematics for the covox voice master, to achieve
your goal you're going to need to reverse engineer the software and then
design your own circuit that will work round the limitations of the
joystick port.

Different ADC circuits and chips work in different ways and you'll need
to use one compatible with covox (which may or may not have to be the
one that the original used). The C64 SID has it's own ADC for paddles,
if it was a c64 specific covox voice master then they may have used
that. You may still have to deal with voltage conversion.

On 11/10/2016 02:30, Terry Raymond wrote:

> Im very new to Electronics so I would need the circuit for the 5 bit ADC.
>
> Im wondering if most Ekectronic component stores still have the ADC.
>
> Well i will look gotta run.
>
> Terry Raymond
>
> On Monday, October 10, 2016, Zoran Davidovac <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>


       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

Groepaz
On Tuesday 11 October 2016, 08:49:08 smf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The C64 SID has it's own ADC for paddles,
> if it was a c64 specific covox voice master then they may have used
> that.

no, the sample period of the paddle ADC is way too long to be useable for
audio

--

http://www.hitmen-console.org    http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org        http://ar.pokefinder.org

'Just some not too serious nitpicking: The game crashes whenever I hit restore
(and I hit it all the time, it's my hobby)'
<tfg>



       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
smf
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

smf
On 11/10/2016 10:26, [hidden email] wrote:
> no, the sample period of the paddle ADC is way too long to be useable for
> audio
>

I knew it took a while, but how long does it actually take?


       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
smf
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

smf
Ok, looks like this was answered a long time ago....

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.sys.cbm/G0CJgGPLei0/MgxDU6GZrz0J



On 11/10/2016 15:46, smf wrote:

> On 11/10/2016 10:26, [hidden email] wrote:
>> no, the sample period of the paddle ADC is way too long to be useable
>> for
>> audio
>>
>
> I knew it took a while, but how long does it actually take?
>
>
>       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list


       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

Groepaz
On Tuesday 11 October 2016, 15:48:16 smf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Ok, looks like this was answered a long time ago....
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.sys.cbm/G0CJgGPLei0/MgxDU6GZrz0J

:) another problem is that teh paddle ADC doesnt translate an external voltage
to a value, but it measures the resistance of an external resistor - which
makes using it for sampling audio significantly more complex.

--

http://www.hitmen-console.org    http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org        http://ar.pokefinder.org

Americans always do the right thing, once they have exhausted all other
possibilities.
<Winston Churchill>



       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

Jim Brain

Wow, talk about a blast from the past...


Since that time, I have confirmed that you get 512 cycles per sample.  256 with the input tied to ground to completely discharge the cap, and then 256 left floating to the external resistor can charge the cap via the RC network.


Jim


On October 11, 2016 at 10:54 AM [hidden email] wrote:


On Tuesday 11 October 2016, 15:48:16 smf <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ok, looks like this was answered a long time ago....

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.sys.cbm/G0CJgGPLei0/MgxDU6GZrz0J

:) another problem is that teh paddle ADC doesnt translate an external voltage
to a value, but it measures the resistance of an external resistor - which
makes using it for sampling audio significantly more complex.

--

http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ar.pokefinder.org

Americans always do the right thing, once they have exhausted all other
possibilities.
<Winston Churchill>



Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list

Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

traymond
Hi Jim,

Please explain (im new to all Electronics)
Input = voltage or Joystick input in this device ?
Cap, I assume the round capacitors.
External Resistor = is this a resistor ladder or 5bit ADC
RC Network ?

I might look for info on the Commodore files (Bo Zimmerman's site)  
Google Digitizers or 5 ADC etc.
I will try to research this more too, but thanks guys for the info.

Terry Raymond
On Tuesday, October 11, 2016, Jim Brain <[hidden email]> wrote:

Wow, talk about a blast from the past...


Since that time, I have confirmed that you get 512 cycles per sample.  256 with the input tied to ground to completely discharge the cap, and then 256 left floating to the external resistor can charge the cap via the RC network.


Jim


On October 11, 2016 at 10:54 AM <a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;groepaz@gmx.net&#39;);" target="_blank">groepaz@... wrote:


On Tuesday 11 October 2016, 15:48:16 smf <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;smf@null.net&#39;);" target="_blank">smf@...> wrote:

Ok, looks like this was answered a long time ago....

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.sys.cbm/G0CJgGPLei0/MgxDU6GZrz0J

:) another problem is that teh paddle ADC doesnt translate an external voltage
to a value, but it measures the resistance of an external resistor - which
makes using it for sampling audio significantly more complex.

--

http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ar.pokefinder.org

Americans always do the right thing, once they have exhausted all other
possibilities.
<Winston Churchill>



Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list

Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

Jim Brain

Terry, before trying to understand the SID ADC, you'll need to learn more about RC networks, and there are lots of howtos online.

Trying to understand the C64 behavior without those fundementals will only frustrate.


On a related note:

The SID POT ADC circuitry needs to drag the line hard to ground for 256 cycles.  NMOS would easily handle this, but it must be a pretty hefty transistor to ensure it can overcome the current coming from the paddle resistor.  I don't see such a transistor on the 6581 die shots, but it must be there.  What should I look for?


jim


On October 11, 2016 at 11:57 AM Terry Raymond <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Jim,

Please explain (im new to all Electronics)
Input = voltage or Joystick input in this device ?
Cap, I assume the round capacitors.
External Resistor = is this a resistor ladder or 5bit ADC
RC Network ?

I might look for info on the Commodore files (Bo Zimmerman's site)  
Google Digitizers or 5 ADC etc.
I will try to research this more too, but thanks guys for the info.

Terry Raymond
On Tuesday, October 11, 2016, Jim Brain <[hidden email]> wrote:

Wow, talk about a blast from the past...


Since that time, I have confirmed that you get 512 cycles per sample.  256 with the input tied to ground to completely discharge the cap, and then 256 left floating to the external resistor can charge the cap via the RC network.


Jim


On October 11, 2016 at 10:54 AM [hidden email] wrote:


On Tuesday 11 October 2016, 15:48:16 smf <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ok, looks like this was answered a long time ago....

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.sys.cbm/G0CJgGPLei0/MgxDU6GZrz0J

:) another problem is that teh paddle ADC doesnt translate an external voltage
to a value, but it measures the resistance of an external resistor - which
makes using it for sampling audio significantly more complex.

--

http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ar.pokefinder.org

Americans always do the right thing, once they have exhausted all other
possibilities.
<Winston Churchill>



Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list

Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

traymond
Hi Jim,

Is the SID Pot ADC the same Pot X any Y that Joysticks or Paddles use?

The Actual Transistor on the Pot ADC I didnt know about this and a lot about the 
SID and I dontvat the time know much about the SID Die, very awesome but if you could point out where the Pot ADC is located on the Die, but I need to try and understand 
the Pot ADC more too.

Thank you for the info on this Jim but I can see its all learning about this particular circuit
is needed on my part.

Terry Raymond

On Tuesday, October 11, 2016, Jim Brain <[hidden email]> wrote:

Terry, before trying to understand the SID ADC, you'll need to learn more about RC networks, and there are lots of howtos online.

Trying to understand the C64 behavior without those fundementals will only frustrate.


On a related note:

The SID POT ADC circuitry needs to drag the line hard to ground for 256 cycles.  NMOS would easily handle this, but it must be a pretty hefty transistor to ensure it can overcome the current coming from the paddle resistor.  I don't see such a transistor on the 6581 die shots, but it must be there.  What should I look for?


jim


On October 11, 2016 at 11:57 AM Terry Raymond <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;traymond20@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">traymond20@...> wrote:

Hi Jim,

Please explain (im new to all Electronics)
Input = voltage or Joystick input in this device ?
Cap, I assume the round capacitors.
External Resistor = is this a resistor ladder or 5bit ADC
RC Network ?

I might look for info on the Commodore files (Bo Zimmerman's site)  
Google Digitizers or 5 ADC etc.
I will try to research this more too, but thanks guys for the info.

Terry Raymond
On Tuesday, October 11, 2016, Jim Brain <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;brain@jbrain.com&#39;);" target="_blank">brain@...> wrote:

Wow, talk about a blast from the past...


Since that time, I have confirmed that you get 512 cycles per sample.  256 with the input tied to ground to completely discharge the cap, and then 256 left floating to the external resistor can charge the cap via the RC network.


Jim


On October 11, 2016 at 10:54 AM [hidden email] wrote:


On Tuesday 11 October 2016, 15:48:16 smf <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ok, looks like this was answered a long time ago....

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.sys.cbm/G0CJgGPLei0/MgxDU6GZrz0J

:) another problem is that teh paddle ADC doesnt translate an external voltage
to a value, but it measures the resistance of an external resistor - which
makes using it for sampling audio significantly more complex.

--

http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ar.pokefinder.org

Americans always do the right thing, once they have exhausted all other
possibilities.
<Winston Churchill>



Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list

Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
smf
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

smf
In terms of covox it would seem to be a dead end anyway.

It's probably going to be using the up/down/left/right & fire inputs. If
vice supports covox voice master then you can get the details from
there, if it doesn't support it then you'll need to disassemble the
software to figure out which joystick lines take each bit (and to test
it you may want to add support for it). There may be an output line to
trigger a sample.

Once you have those details then hooking up the hardware should be
(relatively) trivial.

On 11/10/2016 17:31, Terry Raymond wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> Is the SID Pot ADC the same Pot X any Y that Joysticks or Paddles use?
>
> The Actual Transistor on the Pot ADC I didnt know about this and a lot
> about the
> SID and I dontvat the time know much about the SID Die, very awesome but if
> you could point out where the Pot ADC is located on the Die, but I need to
> try and understand
> the Pot ADC more too.
>
> Thank you for the info on this Jim but I can see its all learning about
> this particular circuit
> is needed on my part.
>
> Terry Raymond
>
> On Tuesday, October 11, 2016, Jim Brain <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Terry, before trying to understand the SID ADC, you'll need to learn more
>> about RC networks, and there are lots of howtos online.
>>
>> Trying to understand the C64 behavior without those fundementals will only
>> frustrate.
>>
>>
>> On a related note:
>>
>> The SID POT ADC circuitry needs to drag the line hard to ground for 256
>> cycles.  NMOS would easily handle this, but it must be a pretty hefty
>> transistor to ensure it can overcome the current coming from the paddle
>> resistor.  I don't see such a transistor on the 6581 die shots, but it must
>> be there.  What should I look for?
>>
>>
>> jim
>>
>>
>> On October 11, 2016 at 11:57 AM Terry Raymond <[hidden email]
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[hidden email]');>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>> Please explain (im new to all Electronics)
>> Input = voltage or Joystick input in this device ?
>> Cap, I assume the round capacitors.
>> External Resistor = is this a resistor ladder or 5bit ADC
>> RC Network ?
>>
>> I might look for info on the Commodore files (Bo Zimmerman's site)
>> Google Digitizers or 5 ADC etc.
>> I will try to research this more too, but thanks guys for the info.
>>
>> Terry Raymond
>> On Tuesday, October 11, 2016, Jim Brain <[hidden email]
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[hidden email]');>> wrote:
>>
>> Wow, talk about a blast from the past...
>>
>>
>> Since that time, I have confirmed that you get 512 cycles per sample.  256
>> with the input tied to ground to completely discharge the cap, and then 256
>> left floating to the external resistor can charge the cap via the RC
>> network.
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> On October 11, 2016 at 10:54 AM [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday 11 October 2016, 15:48:16 smf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Ok, looks like this was answered a long time ago....
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.sys.cbm/G0CJgGPLe
>> i0/MgxDU6GZrz0J
>>
>> :) another problem is that teh paddle ADC doesnt translate an external
>> voltage
>> to a value, but it measures the resistance of an external resistor - which
>> makes using it for sampling audio significantly more complex.
>>
>> --
>>
>> http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
>> http://www.pokefinder.org http://ar.pokefinder.org
>>
>> Americans always do the right thing, once they have exhausted all other
>> possibilities.
>> <Winston Churchill>
>>
>>
>>
>> Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
>>
>> Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
>>
>> Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list


       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

Gerrit Heitsch
In reply to this post by Jim Brain
On 10/11/2016 06:10 PM, Jim Brain wrote:
>
> The SID POT ADC circuitry needs to drag the line hard to ground for 256
> cycles.  NMOS would easily handle this, but it must be a pretty hefty
> transistor to ensure it can overcome the current coming from the paddle
> resistor.  I don't see such a transistor on the 6581 die shots, but it
> must be there.  What should I look for?

When looking at

http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/mos6581r4/full_q30.jpg

the paddle inputs should be the 2nd and 3rd pad from the bottom on the
left side of the die. Between them is a mirrored structure which should
be the measuring circuit.

Close to each pad, I can see something that looks like a transistor that
connects the pad to the GND line. But it's a lot smaller than the
drivers for the data pins.

The paddle resistors are 500K max, but I don't know what their minimum
value is. The schematics suggest that it's zero, but that would be more
than any NMOS driver can handle...

  Gerrit







       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

traymond
Hi Gerrit,

Are you referring to the actual data pins that solder in or are socketed.
the transistor is way small though?

I was looking at the larger 3 squares at the bottom, wow .

Is the SID wafer about the size of a match head about,  just amazing so much
could fit on a small wafer, SID on Steroids  :)

Terry Raymond

On Tuesday, October 11, 2016, Gerrit Heitsch <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 10/11/2016 06:10 PM, Jim Brain wrote:

The SID POT ADC circuitry needs to drag the line hard to ground for 256
cycles.  NMOS would easily handle this, but it must be a pretty hefty
transistor to ensure it can overcome the current coming from the paddle
resistor.  I don't see such a transistor on the 6581 die shots, but it
must be there.  What should I look for?

When looking at

http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/mos6581r4/full_q30.jpg

the paddle inputs should be the 2nd and 3rd pad from the bottom on the left side of the die. Between them is a mirrored structure which should be the measuring circuit.

Close to each pad, I can see something that looks like a transistor that connects the pad to the GND line. But it's a lot smaller than the drivers for the data pins.

The paddle resistors are 500K max, but I don't know what their minimum value is. The schematics suggest that it's zero, but that would be more than any NMOS driver can handle...

 Gerrit







      Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

Gerrit Heitsch
On 10/12/2016 03:54 AM, Terry Raymond wrote:
> Hi Gerrit,
>
> Are you referring to the actual data pins that solder in or are socketed.
> the transistor is way small though?

I'm talking about the structure on the die shot I supplied.

If you put pinout of SID and die shot side by side, you can easily tell
which pads are what.


> I was looking at the larger 3 squares at the bottom, wow .

The squares are the pads where the bonding wires are connected. The
drivers on the pads of the data lines are the large comb like structures
next to them. The ADC pads have something similiar, but MUCH smaller.



> Is the SID wafer about the size of a match head about,  just amazing so much
> could fit on a small wafer, SID on Steroids  :)

The die is about 4 x 4 mm if I remember right.

  Gerrit





>
> Terry Raymond
>
> On Tuesday, October 11, 2016, Gerrit Heitsch <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     On 10/11/2016 06:10 PM, Jim Brain wrote:
>
>
>         The SID POT ADC circuitry needs to drag the line hard to ground
>         for 256
>         cycles.  NMOS would easily handle this, but it must be a pretty
>         hefty
>         transistor to ensure it can overcome the current coming from the
>         paddle
>         resistor.  I don't see such a transistor on the 6581 die shots,
>         but it
>         must be there.  What should I look for?
>
>
>     When looking at
>
>     http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/mos6581r4/full_q30.jpg
>     <http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/mos6581r4/full_q30.jpg>
>
>     the paddle inputs should be the 2nd and 3rd pad from the bottom on
>     the left side of the die. Between them is a mirrored structure which
>     should be the measuring circuit.
>
>     Close to each pad, I can see something that looks like a transistor
>     that connects the pad to the GND line. But it's a lot smaller than
>     the drivers for the data pins.
>
>     The paddle resistors are 500K max, but I don't know what their
>     minimum value is. The schematics suggest that it's zero, but that
>     would be more than any NMOS driver can handle...
>
>      Gerrit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>           Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
>


       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

Steve Gray
Sorry for jumping in late. I own an original Covox Voice Master like this:


It connects to the user port. I have it open right now. There are two chips: ADC0804LCN and LM324N. So obviously an analog to digital converter and amplifier. The other components are normal resistors, capacitors, diodes and transistors. The pcb is single-sided. It looks like I hacked it long ago for some reason. The user port connector was removed, some traces cut, and wires added. I'm guessing I must have tried modifying it for use on the Amiga. Anyway, if anyone is interested in pics let me know.

Steve



From: Gerrit Heitsch <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Covox Voice Master

On 10/12/2016 03:54 AM, Terry Raymond wrote:
> Hi Gerrit,
>
> Are you referring to the actual data pins that solder in or are socketed.
> the transistor is way small though?

I'm talking about the structure on the die shot I supplied.

If you put pinout of SID and die shot side by side, you can easily tell
which pads are what.


> I was looking at the larger 3 squares at the bottom, wow .

The squares are the pads where the bonding wires are connected. The
drivers on the pads of the data lines are the large comb like structures
next to them. The ADC pads have something similiar, but MUCH smaller.



> Is the SID wafer about the size of a match head about,  just amazing so much
> could fit on a small wafer, SID on Steroids  :)

The die is about 4 x 4 mm if I remember right.

  Gerrit





>
> Terry Raymond
>
> On Tuesday, October 11, 2016, Gerrit Heitsch <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

>
>    On 10/11/2016 06:10 PM, Jim Brain wrote:
>
>
>        The SID POT ADC circuitry needs to drag the line hard to ground
>        for 256
>        cycles.  NMOS would easily handle this, but it must be a pretty
>        hefty
>        transistor to ensure it can overcome the current coming from the
>        paddle
>        resistor.  I don't see such a transistor on the 6581 die shots,
>        but it
>        must be there.  What should I look for?
>
>
>    When looking at
>
>    http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/mos6581r4/full_q30.jpg
>    <http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/mos6581r4/full_q30.jpg>
>
>    the paddle inputs should be the 2nd and 3rd pad from the bottom on
>    the left side of the die. Between them is a mirrored structure which
>    should be the measuring circuit.
>
>    Close to each pad, I can see something that looks like a transistor
>    that connects the pad to the GND line. But it's a lot smaller than
>    the drivers for the data pins.
>
>    The paddle resistors are 500K max, but I don't know what their
>    minimum value is. The schematics suggest that it's zero, but that
>    would be more than any NMOS driver can handle...
>
>      Gerrit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>          Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
>


      Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Covox Voice Master

Francesco Messineo
On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Steve Gray <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry for jumping in late. I own an original Covox Voice Master like this:
>
> http://www.commodorespain.es/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Voice-Master.jpg
>
> It connects to the user port. I have it open right now. There are two chips:
> ADC0804LCN and LM324N. So obviously an analog to digital converter and
> amplifier. The other components are normal resistors, capacitors, diodes and
> transistors. The pcb is single-sided. It looks like I hacked it long ago for
> some reason. The user port connector was removed, some traces cut, and wires
> added. I'm guessing I must have tried modifying it for use on the Amiga.
> Anyway, if anyone is interested in pics let me know.

It can be easily reproduced with modern components, there's only the
need to reverse engineer the user port pins to ADC chip pins
connections.
If someone is interested anyway.

Frank

       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
12