Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

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LHS
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Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

LHS

Hello,

I have 3.5 floppy drive DD-001 into expansion port, unfortunately
without manual and I can't find it at usually pages of C64 docs.

I have an original (?) bootdisk (v1.1), there is a few games and tools
(format disk, copy, diskmon etc.), but these tools don't work. I
load&run any tool, then I type e.g. a filename and the tool crashes at
JSR $8xxx (I gonna disassemble why...).

In Basic I can read DIR, LOAD a file, but command SAVE returns "file not
found".

Anyone have the manual or experience with this drive? I can format a
floppy disk via SYS 32783, but I can't save any data.

There is a photo of one page of the manual:
http://www.8bit.dk/pictures/Commodore/Expansion%20Port%20Stuff/IB-PLC%20-%20DD-001%20-%203.5%20FloppyDrive%20-%20In%20Box/slides/TIB-PLC_-_DD-001_-_3.5_FloppyDrive_18.html

Thanks,

LHS



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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

Steve Gray
Would it be possible to image the disk to share? Cloning the TIB drive is on my to-do list. I have lots of pictures of the cartridge, but no disk. Thanks!

Steve



From: Tomas Vondracek <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 6:39 AM
Subject: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001


Hello,

I have 3.5 floppy drive DD-001 into expansion port, unfortunately
without manual and I can't find it at usually pages of C64 docs.

I have an original (?) bootdisk (v1.1), there is a few games and tools
(format disk, copy, diskmon etc.), but these tools don't work. I
load&run any tool, then I type e.g. a filename and the tool crashes at
JSR $8xxx (I gonna disassemble why...).

In Basic I can read DIR, LOAD a file, but command SAVE returns "file not
found".

Anyone have the manual or experience with this drive? I can format a
floppy disk via SYS 32783, but I can't save any data.

There is a photo of one page of the manual:

Thanks,

LHS





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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

David Wood-2
An image of the rom would be great too.

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 1:15 PM, Steve Gray <[hidden email]> wrote:
Would it be possible to image the disk to share? Cloning the TIB drive is on my to-do list. I have lots of pictures of the cartridge, but no disk. Thanks!

Steve



From: Tomas Vondracek <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 6:39 AM
Subject: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001


Hello,

I have 3.5 floppy drive DD-001 into expansion port, unfortunately
without manual and I can't find it at usually pages of C64 docs.

I have an original (?) bootdisk (v1.1), there is a few games and tools
(format disk, copy, diskmon etc.), but these tools don't work. I
load&run any tool, then I type e.g. a filename and the tool crashes at
JSR $8xxx (I gonna disassemble why...).

In Basic I can read DIR, LOAD a file, but command SAVE returns "file not
found".

Anyone have the manual or experience with this drive? I can format a
floppy disk via SYS 32783, but I can't save any data.

There is a photo of one page of the manual:

Thanks,

LHS






LHS
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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

LHS

Yes, it would be possible ;-)

I dumped the EPROM and took photos of the PCB, I'd like make a drawing
and publish the result. Stay tuned.


LHS


David Wood wrote:

> An image of the rom would be great too.
>
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 1:15 PM, Steve Gray <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Would it be possible to image the disk to share? Cloning the TIB
>     drive is on my to-do list. I have lots of pictures of the cartridge,
>     but no disk. Thanks!
>
>     Steve
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Tomas Vondracek <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>     *To:* [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     *Sent:* Sunday, April 15, 2018 6:39 AM
>     *Subject:* Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001
>
>
>     Hello,
>
>     I have 3.5 floppy drive DD-001 into expansion port, unfortunately
>     without manual and I can't find it at usually pages of C64 docs.
>
>     I have an original (?) bootdisk (v1.1), there is a few games and tools
>     (format disk, copy, diskmon etc.), but these tools don't work. I
>     load&run any tool, then I type e.g. a filename and the tool crashes at
>     JSR $8xxx (I gonna disassemble why...).
>
>     In Basic I can read DIR, LOAD a file, but command SAVE returns "file
>     not
>     found".
>
>     Anyone have the manual or experience with this drive? I can format a
>     floppy disk via SYS 32783, but I can't save any data.
>
>     There is a photo of one page of the manual:
>     http://www.8bit.dk/pictures/Commodore/Expansion%20Port%20Stuff/IB-PLC%20-%20DD-001%20-%203.5%20FloppyDrive%20-%20In%20Box/slides/TIB-PLC_-_DD-001_-_3.5_FloppyDrive_18.html
>     <http://www.8bit.dk/pictures/Commodore/Expansion%20Port%20Stuff/IB-PLC%20-%20DD-001%20-%203.5%20FloppyDrive%20-%20In%20Box/slides/TIB-PLC_-_DD-001_-_3.5_FloppyDrive_18.html>
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     LHS
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

Spiro Trikaliotis
In reply to this post by LHS
* On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 12:37:37PM +0200 Tomas Vondracek wrote:
 
> Anyone have the manual or experience with this drive? I can format a floppy
> disk via SYS 32783, but I can't save any data.

I do not have any experience. In fact, I never even heard about this
drive.

I did a quick search and found this page:
http://www.retroport.de/C64_C128_Laufwerke.html
There is a scan of two pages from the German magazine 64'er.

They say that the drive is very unreliable if used with the orginal PSU,
because it has spikes with more than 1.1A, that is too much for the PSU.
At least for Germany, the drives that are sold should get an own PSU.

This should not happen with a PSU from GB, however.

Perhaps, you have the same problem?

Regards,
Spiro.

--
Spiro R. Trikaliotis
http://www.trikaliotis.net/

LHS
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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

LHS
I have version supplied from exp.port, but I have a "strong" PC PSU.
But, it's terrible, when the heads are moving, the C64 screen blinks...

The save error isn't caused by a supply decrease, other experiments
return messages "name to long" (not too long...) or "disk is write
protected".

But there is a little progress. Disassembling revelead different offsets
in tools and ROM.
E.g. tools calls:
JSR $89DB

but correct (and working) according to ROM is:
JSR $89D9


LHS



Spiro Trikaliotis wrote:

> * On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 12:37:37PM +0200 Tomas Vondracek wrote:
>
>> Anyone have the manual or experience with this drive? I can format a floppy
>> disk via SYS 32783, but I can't save any data.
>
> I do not have any experience. In fact, I never even heard about this
> drive.
>
> I did a quick search and found this page:
> http://www.retroport.de/C64_C128_Laufwerke.html
> There is a scan of two pages from the German magazine 64'er.
>
> They say that the drive is very unreliable if used with the orginal PSU,
> because it has spikes with more than 1.1A, that is too much for the PSU.
> At least for Germany, the drives that are sold should get an own PSU.
>
> This should not happen with a PSU from GB, however.
>
> Perhaps, you have the same problem?
>
> Regards,
> Spiro.
>

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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

Spiro Trikaliotis
Hello Tomas,

* On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 09:14:23PM +0200 Tomas Vondracek wrote:
 
> But there is a little progress. Disassembling revelead different offsets in
> tools and ROM.
> E.g. tools calls:
> JSR $89DB
>
> but correct (and working) according to ROM is:
> JSR $89D9

Is the SW stored in an EPROM? $89DB and $89D9 differ in one bit only. If
the "0" is not read correctly anymore, it can show up as a "1", that's
typical for EPROMs.

Oh, and it also typical for EPROMs if they are used with less voltage
than they should have.

Regards,
Spiro.

--
Spiro R. Trikaliotis
http://www.trikaliotis.net/

LHS
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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

LHS
Yes, it is in eprom, but I think I have tools disk for another version
of the drive. Any disktool isn't working.

The tool "FORMAT" includes code JSR $89DB, but it jams the program. I
read and check out the EPROM several times. Correct jump to ROM for
function "FORMAT" is JSR $89D9.

I have to check and fix the tool "FILECOPY", then I hope I can reveal
the secret of SAVE...


LHS


Spiro Trikaliotis wrote:

> Hello Tomas,
>
> * On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 09:14:23PM +0200 Tomas Vondracek wrote:
>
>> But there is a little progress. Disassembling revelead different offsets in
>> tools and ROM.
>> E.g. tools calls:
>> JSR $89DB
>>
>> but correct (and working) according to ROM is:
>> JSR $89D9
>
> Is the SW stored in an EPROM? $89DB and $89D9 differ in one bit only. If
> the "0" is not read correctly anymore, it can show up as a "1", that's
> typical for EPROMs.
>
> Oh, and it also typical for EPROMs if they are used with less voltage
> than they should have.
>
> Regards,
> Spiro.
>

smf
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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

smf
In reply to this post by Steve Gray
On 15/04/2018 18:15, Steve Gray wrote:
> Cloning the TIB drive is on my to-do list.

That would be awesome. I only ever saw TIB at one commodore show and I
was pretty tempted to get one and a 64gs.



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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

Steve Gray
I haven't worked on this for a while, but I decided to post what I've done so far on GitHub if anyone is interested:


There are some pictures, the firmware, and my current (very early) Kicad schematics.

Steve





From: smf <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

On 15/04/2018 18:15, Steve Gray wrote:

> Cloning the TIB drive is on my to-do list.


That would be awesome. I only ever saw TIB at one commodore show and I
was pretty tempted to get one and a 64gs.






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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

MiaM
In reply to this post by LHS
Den Sun, 15 Apr 2018 21:43:15 +0200 skrev Tomas Vondracek
<[hidden email]>:
> Yes, it is in eprom,

On your pictures there are no label covering the erase window on the
eprom. With white plastics on the cartridge box, maybe enough light has
found it's way onto the eprom erasing some bits?


--
(\_/) Copy the bunny to your mails to help
(O.o) him achieve world domination.
(> <) Come join the dark side.
/_|_\ We have cookies.

LHS
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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

LHS
In reply to this post by Steve Gray

Cool, thanks, I'm not idiot, your ROM file is different! :-D

Perhaps this ROM will work with the tool disk.


LHS


Steve Gray wrote:
> I haven't worked on this for a while, but I decided to post what I've
> done so far on GitHub if anyone is interested:
>
> https://github.com/sjgray/TIB-001-Cart
>
> There are some pictures, the firmware, and my current (very early) Kicad
> schematics.
>
> Steve

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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

Konrad B
In reply to this post by Steve Gray
I once considered buying one to reverse engineer it, but the seller
had neither the user manual nor the bootdisk (and actually wanted to
rip me off).

I reverse engineered FinalChesscard just to figure out I was not the
first to do this (and improved clone - FCC64 - had been designed few
months before I did my work). Anyway - with the DD-001 cartridge it is
not that much work to figure out the connections, for the FC I used a
tool that helped me with generating Eagle schematic from the PCB
photos.  If someone is interested:
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3247421.html, this the tool -
KrzysPCB, it is intended to be used with bare PCBs (with all the
components removed), but for simple devices this may not be required.
And the results of my work:
https://www.fotosik.pl/u/kb777/album/2496546 (as FCC64 has much better
docs - this is rather to show how I retraced the connections with
KrzysPCB).

Regards,
Konrad

2018-04-15 22:49 GMT+02:00 Steve Gray <[hidden email]>:

> I haven't worked on this for a while, but I decided to post what I've done
> so far on GitHub if anyone is interested:
>
> https://github.com/sjgray/TIB-001-Cart
>
> There are some pictures, the firmware, and my current (very early) Kicad
> schematics.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: smf <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 3:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001
>
> On 15/04/2018 18:15, Steve Gray wrote:
>
>> Cloning the TIB drive is on my to-do list.
>
>
> That would be awesome. I only ever saw TIB at one commodore show and I
> was pretty tempted to get one and a 64gs.
>
>
>
>
>
>

LHS
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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

LHS

Hey guys,

just a short information - I'v made a function clone of DD-001. Here is
a photo:

http://jyxo.info/uploads/A7/a7893b9273e2cb48430b016748dac31105581734.jpg

I have to process the other notes and drawings before release.


There are two different ROM files (one from my device, second provided
from Steve Gray) and a bootdisk, which runs with Steve's ROM (with my
ROM calls incorect adresses).

This cloned drive works with an ordinary PC floppy drive, but it must be
jumpered or wired as DS0.

Unfortunately I didn't find the manual, but fortunately the SAVE routine
works correct (like with 1541) in the second ROM.


LHS


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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

Steve Gray
Very nice! Great job. Will you be making pcbs and/or publishing schemtatics etc?

Steve



From: Tomas Vondracek <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2018 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001


Hey guys,

just a short information - I'v made a function clone of DD-001. Here is
a photo:


I have to process the other notes and drawings before release.


There are two different ROM files (one from my device, second provided
from Steve Gray) and a bootdisk, which runs with Steve's ROM (with my
ROM calls incorect adresses).

This cloned drive works with an ordinary PC floppy drive, but it must be
jumpered or wired as DS0.

Unfortunately I didn't find the manual, but fortunately the SAVE routine
works correct (like with 1541) in the second ROM.


LHS




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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

Julian Perry
In reply to this post by LHS
Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001 Colour me impressed - that's a fascinating project !

Julian



> Hey guys,

> just a short information - I'v made a function clone of DD-001. Here is
> a photo:

> http://jyxo.info/uploads/A7/a7893b9273e2cb48430b016748dac31105581734.jpg

> I have to process the other notes and drawings before release.


> There are two different ROM files (one from my device, second provided
> from Steve Gray) and a bootdisk, which runs with Steve's ROM (with my
> ROM calls incorect adresses).

> This cloned drive works with an ordinary PC floppy drive, but it must be
> jumpered or wired as DS0.

> Unfortunately I didn't find the manual, but fortunately the SAVE routine
> works correct (like with 1541) in the second ROM.


> LHS






--
Best regards,
 Julian                            
[hidden email]
smf
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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

smf
In reply to this post by LHS
Excellent work.

I do hope this will be supported in vice, 1541 ultimate & ultimate 64

On 19/05/2018 23:08, Tomas Vondracek wrote:

>
> Hey guys,
>
> just a short information - I'v made a function clone of DD-001. Here
> is a photo:
>
> http://jyxo.info/uploads/A7/a7893b9273e2cb48430b016748dac31105581734.jpg
>
> I have to process the other notes and drawings before release.
>

LHS
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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

LHS
In reply to this post by Steve Gray

> Very nice! Great job. Will you be making pcbs and/or publishing
> schemtatics etc?


Thanks. I will publish "production materials", but probably I will not
make PCBs for sale.

LHS


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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

Steve Gray
I can design a pcb, and make a small run of them, but I probably won't have the time to make completed units.
I was also planning to adapt this design to PET and/or CBM-II just for fun.

Steve



From: Tomas Vondracek <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001


> Very nice! Great job. Will you be making pcbs and/or publishing
> schematics etc?


Thanks. I will publish "production materials", but probably I will not
make PCBs for sale.


LHS




smf
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Re: Commodore PLC TIB DD-001 / Drive 2001

smf
On 20/05/2018 17:42, Steve Gray wrote:
> I was also planning to adapt this design to PET and/or CBM-II just for fun.

That would sure be interesting, though dma on the c64 is very much tied
into the VIC chip. So the adaptation might be extensive.



1234