CBM900 keyboard

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CBM900 keyboard

Michał Pleban
Hello!

Is there any information available on the CBM900 keyboard protocol? Is
it by any chance similar to the one used by Amiga 2000? I can't seem to
find any information on that topic. I have also looked at the schematic,
and maybe I am blind but I cannot even find the keyboard port there :-(

I am considering buying a machine that is missing the keyboard so I need
to know if I can interface some keyboard to it, otherwise it would be
quite pointless (unless some good soul lends me a keyboard of course
;-))

Regards,
Michau.


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Re: CBM900 keyboard

Konrad B
Go for it ! ;)  That would be probably the first C900 in Poland ;)

Regards,
Konrad



2014-07-03 15:01 GMT+02:00 <[hidden email]>:
Hello!

Is there any information available on the CBM900 keyboard protocol? Is it by any chance similar to the one used by Amiga 2000? I can't seem to find any information on that topic. I have also looked at the schematic, and maybe I am blind but I cannot even find the keyboard port there :-(

I am considering buying a machine that is missing the keyboard so I need to know if I can interface some keyboard to it, otherwise it would be quite pointless (unless some good soul lends me a keyboard of course ;-))

Regards,
Michau.


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Re: CBM900 keyboard

silverdr-2
In reply to this post by Michał Pleban
On 2014-07-03 at 15:02:32, [hidden email] ([hidden email]) wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Is there any information available on the CBM900 keyboard protocol? Is
> it by any chance similar to the one used by Amiga 2000? I can't seem to
> find any information on that topic. I have also looked at the schematic,
> and maybe I am blind but I cannot even find the keyboard port there :-(
>
> I am considering buying a machine that is missing the keyboard so I need
> to know if I can interface some keyboard to it, otherwise it would be
> quite pointless (unless some good soul lends me a keyboard of course
> ;-))

Unless somebody wants more than 1 BTC for it - there is nothing to consider :-) Just take it. Or let me know who sells it :-))

P. S. Since it is of more or less of the same time as the Amiga (they might have even reused the casing for the A2k later on) - the chances are quite high that it will use the same protocol but don't take my word for it.
--
SD!

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Re: CBM900 keyboard

Uffe Jakobsen
Administrator


On 2014-07-03 16:36, [hidden email] wrote:

> On 2014-07-03 at 15:02:32, [hidden email] ([hidden email]) wrote:
>
>> Hello!
>>
>> Is there any information available on the CBM900 keyboard protocol? Is
>> it by any chance similar to the one used by Amiga 2000? I can't seem to
>> find any information on that topic. I have also looked at the schematic,
>> and maybe I am blind but I cannot even find the keyboard port there :-(
>>
>> I am considering buying a machine that is missing the keyboard so I need
>> to know if I can interface some keyboard to it, otherwise it would be
>> quite pointless (unless some good soul lends me a keyboard of course
>> ;-))
>
> Unless somebody wants more than 1 BTC for it - there is nothing to consider :-) Just take it. Or let me know who sells it :-))
>
> P. S. Since it is of more or less of the same time as the Amiga (they might have even reused the casing for the A2k later on) - the chances are quite high that it will use the same protocol but don't take my word for it.
>

PS: FYI: the casing (CBM900 vs A2000) is not the same - it looks
identical - but has different measurements

/Uffe




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Re: CBM900 keyboard

silverdr-2
On 2014-07-03 at 17:22:46, Uffe Jakobsen ([hidden email]) wrote:

> > P. S. Since it is of more or less of the same time as the Amiga (they might have even reused 
> the casing for the A2k later on) - the chances are quite high that it will use the same protocol  
> but don't take my word for it.
> >
>  
> PS: FYI: the casing (CBM900 vs A2000) is not the same - it looks
> identical - but has different measurements

Might be. The A4k cases were also a variation of the cbm's pc cases of the time.

--  
SD!

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Re: CBM900 keyboard

Didier Derny
last time a saw a c900 running it was in a box of commdore 8000 :)
I dont remember his keyboard...



On 03/07/2014 17:39, [hidden email] wrote:

> On 2014-07-03 at 17:22:46, Uffe Jakobsen ([hidden email]) wrote:
>
>>> P. S. Since it is of more or less of the same time as the Amiga (they might have even reused
>> the casing for the A2k later on) - the chances are quite high that it will use the same protocol
>> but don't take my word for it.
>>  
>> PS: FYI: the casing (CBM900 vs A2000) is not the same - it looks
>> identical - but has different measurements
> Might be. The A4k cases were also a variation of the cbm's pc cases of the time.
>
> --
> SD!
>
>         Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list


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Re: CBM900 keyboard

Uffe Jakobsen
Administrator
In reply to this post by silverdr-2


On 2014-07-03 17:39, [hidden email] wrote:

> On 2014-07-03 at 17:22:46, Uffe Jakobsen ([hidden email]) wrote:
>
>>> P. S. Since it is of more or less of the same time as the Amiga (they might have even reused
>> the casing for the A2k later on) - the chances are quite high that it will use the same protocol
>> but don't take my word for it.
>>>
>>
>> PS: FYI: the casing (CBM900 vs A2000) is not the same - it looks
>> identical - but has different measurements
>
> Might be. The A4k cases were also a variation of the cbm's pc cases of the time.
>

No not "might be" - it is a fact - I can send out a picture later this
evening if you wish :-)

/Uffe





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Re: CBM900 keyboard

silverdr-2
On 2014-07-03 at 17:48:25, Uffe Jakobsen ([hidden email]) wrote:

> >>> P. S. Since it is of more or less of the same time as the Amiga (they might have even reused 
> >> the casing for the A2k later on) - the chances are quite high that it will use the same  
> protocol
> >> but don't take my word for it.
> >>>
> >>
> >> PS: FYI: the casing (CBM900 vs A2000) is not the same - it looks
> >> identical - but has different measurements
> >
> > Might be. The A4k cases were also a variation of the cbm's pc cases of the time.
> >
>  
> No not "might be" - it is a fact - I can send out a picture later this
> evening if you wish :-)

I'd prefer you sending me the machine :-) otherwise a picture will have to do.

P. S. I believe you of course. "Might be" above means that I don't disagree. It is known that CBM used variations of the casing designs.
--  
SD!

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Re: CBM900 keyboard

silverdr-2
In reply to this post by Michał Pleban
On 2014-07-03 at 15:02:32, [hidden email] ([hidden email]) wrote:

> Is there any information available on the CBM900 keyboard protocol? Is
> it by any chance similar to the one used by Amiga 2000? I can't seem to
> find any information on that topic. I have also looked at the schematic,
> and maybe I am blind but I cannot even find the keyboard port there :-(
>
> I am considering buying a machine that is missing the keyboard so I need
> to know if I can interface some keyboard to it, otherwise it would be
> quite pointless (unless some good soul lends me a keyboard of course
> ;-))

http://www.ebay.de/itm/161352501424

Not that I could not afford it at all but the principles wouldn't allow me to buy this one for the price he asks ;-)

--
SD!

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Re: CBM900 keyboard

Michał Pleban
In reply to this post by Konrad B
W dniu 2014-07-03 15:32, Konrad B napisał(a):

> Go for it ! ;)  That would be probably the first C900 in Poland ;)

Haha ;-) I would, however, also like it to be the first _working_ one,
which without the keyboard could be quite nontrivial...

Regards,
Michau.


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Re: CBM900 keyboard

Michał Pleban
In reply to this post by silverdr-2
Hello!

W dniu 2014-07-03 16:36, [hidden email] napisał(a):

> P. S. Since it is of more or less of the same time as the Amiga (they
> might have even reused the casing for the A2k later on) - the chances
> are quite high that it will use the same protocol but don't take my
> word for it.

I have searched a bit more and found that the seller of the machine was
asking the same question about the keyboard on the cctech mailing list
in 2010 ;-) Unfortunately no-one knew the answer then, and apparently he
didn't find it anywhere else because he is selling the machine without a
keyboard.

Regards,
Michau.


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Re: CBM900 keyboard

Steve Gray
Try contacting bo zimmerman. He has a c900 and might be able to do some testing for you.

Steve


> On Jul 3, 2014, at 2:25 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> W dniu 2014-07-03 16:36, [hidden email] napisał(a):
>
>> P. S. Since it is of more or less of the same time as the Amiga (they
>> might have even reused the casing for the A2k later on) - the chances
>> are quite high that it will use the same protocol but don't take my
>> word for it.
>
> I have searched a bit more and found that the seller of the machine was asking the same question about the keyboard on the cctech mailing list in 2010 ;-) Unfortunately no-one knew the answer then, and apparently he didn't find it anywhere else because he is selling the machine without a keyboard.
>
> Regards,
> Michau.
>
>
>      Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list

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Re: CBM900 keyboard

Bo Zimmerman
In reply to this post by Michał Pleban
Since I've never gotten a video signal out of my own C900, I can confirm
NOTHING.  However, Claus Schoenleber, from whom the C900s came, assured
me, when I asked explicitly, that a PC keyboard works fine with the machine.

Again, I've never investigated due to the other concerns, but I would
imagine cataloging the chipset should answer the question; at least I
can't imagine them going for PC keyboard compatibility without also
using the off-the-shelf chips to do so.

This is all speculation and second-hand knowledge, but for what it's
worth, there you go.

- Bo

On 7/3/2014 8:01 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Is there any information available on the CBM900 keyboard protocol? Is
> it by any chance similar to the one used by Amiga 2000? I can't seem
> to find any information on that topic. I have also looked at the
> schematic, and maybe I am blind but I cannot even find the keyboard
> port there :-(
>
> I am considering buying a machine that is missing the keyboard so I
> need to know if I can interface some keyboard to it, otherwise it
> would be quite pointless (unless some good soul lends me a keyboard of
> course ;-))
>
> Regards,
> Michau.
>
>
>       Message was sent through the cbm-hackers mailing list
>


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Re: CBM900 keyboard

Anders Carlsson
Bo Zimmerman wrote:

> a PC keyboard works fine with the machine

The SWoC page actually mentions "AT keyboard jack". I would have thought it
slightly predated the AT so it rather would be XT compatible, but I suppose
not.

If it indeed takes a standard AT keyboard, it should be a piece of cake to
source a make-shift keyboard, whether or not every key from the original
keyboard will be mapped is another question.

Best regards

Anders Carlsson


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Re: CBM900 keyboard

Michał Pleban
In reply to this post by Bo Zimmerman
Hello!

W dniu 2014-07-04 05:34, Bo Zimmerman napisał(a):

> Since I've never gotten a video signal out of my own C900, I can
> confirm NOTHING.  However, Claus Schoenleber, from whom the C900s
> came, assured me, when I asked explicitly, that a PC keyboard works
> fine with the machine.
>
> Again, I've never investigated due to the other concerns, but I would
> imagine cataloging the chipset should answer the question; at least I
> can't imagine them going for PC keyboard compatibility without also
> using the off-the-shelf chips to do so.

Thank you very much for your answer. I will try to look again at the
schematics but either the page with keyboard controller is missing, or I
am blind completely and cannot seem to find it.

The thing about PC keyboard compatibility is quite reassuring. Makes me
even more tempted to try ;-)

Regards,
Michau.


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smf
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Re: CBM900 keyboard

smf
In reply to this post by Bo Zimmerman
>at least I can't imagine them going for PC keyboard compatibility without
>also using the off-the-shelf chips to do so.

The PC Keyboard interface is very similar to the IEC bus used by the 1541.
You don't need anything special to drive it.


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Re: CBM900 keyboard

Michał Pleban
In reply to this post by Anders Carlsson
Hello!

Anders Carlsson wrote:

> The SWoC page actually mentions "AT keyboard jack". I would have thought
> it slightly predated the AT so it rather would be XT compatible, but I
> suppose not.

Actually the AT keyboard came out in 1984 whereas this computer was
developed in 1985.

The biggest obstacle is that the keyboard interface is nonexistent on
the schematic so nothing can be checked about it. I will try to check
the traces on the mainboard to see where they lead.

Plus it turned out to be very hard to find out a working MDA/Hercules
monitor so I cannot check the video output :-(

> whether or not every key from the
> original keyboard will be mapped is another question.

That could possibily fixed by a small PIC or AVR device, if only here
was any documentation on the original keyboard...

Regards,
Michau.

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Re: CBM900 keyboard

Steve Gray
Hi,

The CBM-II 700 monitor should handle MDA as it's basically equivalent 80x25 screen using 9x14 pixel characters.

Steve

From: Michał Pleban <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 12:17:25 PM
Subject: Re: CBM900 keyboard

Hello!

Anders Carlsson wrote:

> The SWoC page actually mentions "AT keyboard jack". I would have thought
> it slightly predated the AT so it rather would be XT compatible, but I
> suppose not.

Actually the AT keyboard came out in 1984 whereas this computer was
developed in 1985.

The biggest obstacle is that the keyboard interface is nonexistent on
the schematic so nothing can be checked about it. I will try to check
the traces on the mainboard to see where they lead.

Plus it turned out to be very hard to find out a working MDA/Hercules
monitor so I cannot check the video output :-(

> whether or not every key from the
> original keyboard will be mapped is another question.

That could possibily fixed by a small PIC or AVR device, if only here
was any documentation on the original keyboard...

Regards,
Michau.

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Re: CBM900 keyboard

Steve Gray
In reply to this post by Michał Pleban
Oh, also there are adapters to convert MDA to VGA...

Steve

From: Michał Pleban <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 12:17:25 PM
Subject: Re: CBM900 keyboard

Hello!

Anders Carlsson wrote:

> The SWoC page actually mentions "AT keyboard jack". I would have thought
> it slightly predated the AT so it rather would be XT compatible, but I
> suppose not.

Actually the AT keyboard came out in 1984 whereas this computer was
developed in 1985.

The biggest obstacle is that the keyboard interface is nonexistent on
the schematic so nothing can be checked about it. I will try to check
the traces on the mainboard to see where they lead.

Plus it turned out to be very hard to find out a working MDA/Hercules
monitor so I cannot check the video output :-(

> whether or not every key from the
> original keyboard will be mapped is another question.

That could possibily fixed by a small PIC or AVR device, if only here
was any documentation on the original keyboard...

Regards,
Michau.

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Re: CBM900 keyboard

Michał Pleban
In reply to this post by Steve Gray
Hello!

Steve Gray wrote:

> The CBM-II 700 monitor should handle MDA as it's basically equivalent
> 80x25 screen using 9x14 pixel characters.

Now that is a refreshing idea. I will need to try that!

Regards,
Michau.


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